Thursday Reads: Endless War, Quitterella, Fact-Checking Taibbi, and True Crime News

Good Morning!!

Well, last night, President Obama announced his plans to pull troops out of Afghanistan. Here’s the text of his speech. It was very short, less than 15 minutes. There wasn’t much to it. And get this, according to Think Progress: Obama ‘Withdrawal’ Plan Would Leave More Troops In Afghanistan Than When He Began His Presidency

…the troop reduction would not put us much closer to actually ending the war by the end of 2012. Rather this would simply scale back the second surge of 30,000 troops that President Obama announced in December 2009. It would also maintain the first surge of 17,000 troops Obama ordered upon entering office. This comes at a time when a record number of Americans want to end the war in Afghanistan and the costs of which are putting the United States deeper into debt.

They even have graph to demonstrate these findings. Basically this was just another campaign speech for Obama. He had to fudge up something, because Americans are fed up with the wars:

A new survey from the Pew Research Center finds a record number of Americans now want to bring the troops home from Afghanistan, confirming the trends of other recent polls showing majorities now opposed to the nearly decade-long war.

For the first time since Pew Research began asking the question in 2008, a majority (56 percent) now say they want the U.S. to remove American troops from Afghanistan “as soon as possible,” while 39 percent say they they want to leave troops “until the situation has stabilized.” That result represents a reversal since last year, when leaving the troops in place was preferred by a majority of 53 percent to 40 percent.

Not only has Quitterella cancelled her cross country bus tour, but also her trip to Sudan. She says she’s not going to Sudan because of “scheduling reasons,” but it sounds like it had more to do with security concerns, i.e., fear.

She was planning to travel with Franklin Graham, the son of evangelical leader Billy Graham, as well as Fox News personality Greta Van Susteren, to the July 9 independence ceremony of South Sudan, the sources said. Van Susteren also canceled her trip. Graham said on Wednesday that he still plans to go.

[….]

One U.S. official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of Palin’s potential political aspirations, said the former governor had gotten so far in the planning process as to secure permission from the government of South Sudan to attend the independence ceremony.

The official said one challenge of the trip was security. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who is also tentatively scheduled to attend the ceremony, may not make the trip because of safety concerns in one of the world’s most war-torn countries.

[….]

“There is a genocide taking place,” said Rep. Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.), a longtime advocate for greater U.S. involvement in Sudan. “The more people [who travel to Sudan] from the West, from the United States, the better. I’ve been urging different people to go. We have a museum on the mall, the Holocaust Museum. It says, ‘Never again.’ What doesn’t the West understand about this? If this was taking place in the south of France, do you think we’d let it go on?”

Matt Taibbi has a new screed on Rolling Stone. It’s about how dangerous Michele Bachmann is. I definitely agree with him that her candidacy is no laughing matter; because as ridiculous as we think she is, Bachmann is a hard worker, a true believer, and a fantastic fund raiser.

Unfortunately Taibbi made a big error in his article. He writes:

Young Michele found Jesus at age 16, not long before she went away to Winona State University and met a doltish, like-minded believer named Marcus Bachmann. After finishing college, the two committed young Christians moved to Oklahoma, where Michele entered one of the most ridiculous learning institutions in the Western Hemisphere, a sort of highway rest area with legal accreditation called the O.W. Coburn School of Law; Michele was a member of its inaugural class in 1979.

Originally a division of Oral Roberts University, this august academy, dedicated to the teaching of “the law from a biblical worldview,” has gone through no fewer than three names — including the Christian Broadcasting Network School of Law. Those familiar with the darker chapters in George W. Bush’s presidency might recognize the school’s current name, the Regent University School of Law. Yes, this was the tiny educational outhouse that, despite being the 136th-ranked law school in the country, where 60 percent of graduates flunked the bar, produced a flood of entrants into the Bush Justice Department.

Regent was unabashed in its desire that its graduates enter government and become “change agents” who would help bring the law more in line with “eternal principles of justice,” i.e., biblical morality. To that end, Bachmann was mentored by a crackpot Christian extremist professor named John Eidsmoe, a frequent contributor to John Birch Society publications who once opined that he could imagine Jesus carrying an M16 and who spent considerable space in one of his books musing about the feasibility of criminalizing blasphemy.

Um…Matt? Regent University School of Law is in Virginia. Bachmann never studied there. Bachman did attend Coburn School of Law, which is in Oklahoma.

Oral Roberts University (ORU) established the O. W. Coburn School of Law in 1979. The school was founded to educate Christian lawyers. Initially, there was some question whether the American Bar Association would accredit the school because of its emphasis on Christian values, but accreditation was granted. In 1986 ORU discontinued the law school and gave its law library to CBN (Christian Broadcasting Network) University (now Regent University) at Virginia Beach, Virginia.

Giving their law library to an already establish college isn’t the same as *becoming* that college. BTW, CBS is Pat Roberts’ operation, not Oral Roberts’. I realize it’s difficult for yuppies like to to keep the right-wing preachers straight, but don’t they have fact-checkers at Rolling Stone to sort things out for you? Bachmann also attended William & Mary School of Law, and Taibbi doesn’t mention that. I’m not defending Bachmann or Christian law schools, but Taibbi is supposedly telling us not to underestimate Bachmann, while at the same time getting her history wrong. There are more problems with Taibbi’s article, but I won’t bore you any further.

I hope I didn’t put you to sleep with that silly rant. Matt Taibbi tends to get on my nerves.

Shades of the 1960s, the government has been spying on NYT reporter James Risen.

Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist James Risen has been subjected to government surveillance and harassment that began under the Bush administration, according to a 22-page affidavit he filed Tuesday.

“I believe that the efforts to target me have continued under the Obama administration, which has been aggressively investigating whistleblowers and reporters in a way that will have a chilling effect on freedom of the press in the United States,” Risen said.

Early this year, authorities arrested former CIA officer Jeffrey Sterling and charged him with six counts of unauthorized disclosure of national defense information and one count of unlawfully keeping national defense information, mail fraud, unauthorized conveyance of government property and obstructing justice.

The U.S. Justice Department subpoenaed Risen in May to testify at the criminal trial of Sterling, who was allegedly cited in Risen’s 2006 book.

The Justice Deparment claimed that Risen should be compelled to provide information “like any other citizen” and that he was not “being harassed in order to disrupt his relationship with confidential news sources.”

Ain’t it great having a Democrat in the White House? Oh wait—-

CNN has a couple of crime stories that are well worth reading. The first is a piece on human trafficking in the U.S.: Sex trafficking victim testifies, then vanishes

Among the strung out addicts with zombie eyes and the beaten down prostitutes loitering by neon-lit entrances to adult video stores, Kelsey Emily Collins would have stuck out.

She was from out of town and too young to be where she was.

As she would later testify to a federal grand jury, a man 20 years older than her drove Kelsey 170 miles down Interstate 5 from Seattle to Portland’s 82nd Ave.

There amidst the strip’s seedy motels and lingerie stores where customers can buy backroom lap dances and more, the plan was simple: sell her to as many men as possible.

After that first night in January 2008 when she made about $1,000, all of which she later told investigators went to her pimp, Kelsey went right back to work as a prostitute.

Kelsey was only 16. Later she was approached by Sgt. Doug Justice, a vice squad officer who wanted her to testify against her pimp. Gradually he got Kelsey to talk to him about what had happened to her. Finally she agreed to testify before the Grand Jury. She did testify, and the pimp was later convicted. Afterward Kelsey’s mother wasn’t able to get her the help she needed to recover. She didn’t have money and there was no program that would take Kelsey. Law enforcement basically used her and threw her away. A month after she testified, Kelsey left home with a new “boyfriend,” and disappeared. Justus believes she was murdered because of her testimony. If you have time, please read the article. These are the kinds of women who are targets for predators and serial killers. It’s heartbreaking.

The second article is quite a serious discussion of whether Casey Anthony should testify in her own defense. Here’s just a short excerpt:

George Parnham, best known for defending Andrea Yates, the mentally ill woman who drowned her five children in the bathtub in 2001, says that opening statement “boxed the defense in.” He says Anthony has to tell her story.

“She needs to get up there and defend herself,” he said. “The jury is going to want to hear from her.”

Anthony, 25, is accused of murder, aggravated child abuse, misleading authorities and other offenses. If convicted of murder, she faces the death penalty. In Florida, only seven jurors have to agree on a death sentence.

Parnham, who successfully used an insanity defense for Yates but did not put her on the stand, said he usually decides in favor of letting a jury get to know his client in death penalty cases. “If you humanize her, that may save her life. You’ve got a woman who, if she is convicted, her life is going to be in jeopardy. She’s going to be on death row.”

I know this is tabloid stuff, but there are actually a lot of interesting issues involved in this case–child abuse, teen pregnancy, the death penalty–plus fascinating new forensic techniques.

Anyway, I agree with Parnham. I think the only chance Anthony has to save her life is to get up there and tell the truth. The only problem is that I’m not sure she is capable of being sincere. I think she should try though. It’s entirely possible that she was sexually abused as a child, and it’s obvious that her mother is incredibly narcissistic and manipulative. That doesn’t justify what she did, of course; but it might convince the jury to not to give her the death penalty.

That’s it for me for today. What are you reading and blogging about?


42 Comments on “Thursday Reads: Endless War, Quitterella, Fact-Checking Taibbi, and True Crime News”

  1. Pat Johnson says:

    We might consider that Taibbi offers his “facts” in a manner quite similar to Michele Bachmann.

    As for Palin, I was just getting used to a week free from that ignoramous, getting my fill of the “possibility” of having Rick Perry leading the Tea Party to “victory”, when lo and behold, there she is again “teasing” the public and the pundits with the usual “will she or won’t she” crapola that seems to fascinate her hardcore fanatics who find value in whatever she does.

    Then along comes Obama with a “nothing burger” speech that will be covered for a few news cycles which is about to be eclipsed by the possibility of Lindsay Lohan having her probation revoked and George Clooney breaking up with his latest girlfriend and the question of whether or not Casey Anthony will testify.

    Meanwhile, Planned Parenthood and its services are being eviscerated on a state by state level, jobs are still scarce, and the Justice Department is looking the other way as Clarence Thomas and his dimwit wife continue to thumb their noses at the system.

    Welcome to America where celebrity rules, intelligence is mocked, and democracy is a figment of your imagination.

    • bostonboomer says:

      Hi Pat,

      I know. And I could have written about all those things this morning, but sometimes I get so tired of the depressing news and just want to think about something else.

      • Pat Johnson says:

        Especially when the Sox lose two in a row; we all know how that affects my moods!

        But we did manage to finally, after 15 years of “searching”, get Whitey Bulger in handcuffs.

        Oh well, back to reading Bristol Palin’s “autobiography” where she graphically lays out the reasons for her pregnancy. Nothing says “motherhood” to me than a detailed account, sure to be read by their son in the future, than a description of how he came to be by “mistake” and a couple of wine coolers.

        (Only kidding about the book. I would never shell out one dime to pay for the privilege of reading that braindead claptrap of nonsense. I do have my standards low as they may be.)

      • bostonboomer says:

        Oh no, I was afraid the Sox would lose that game yesterday. I turned it off and never checked the final score.

        What’s this about Whitey Bulger?!

      • Pat Johnson says:

        Whitey and his girlfriend were caught in California yesterday.

    • dakinikat says:

      I absolutely hate the way intellectuals are treated in this country. It is as if the hard work of learning isn’t the least but valued. The people that fawn around palin and others like her drive me nuts. l would like to think that women can get attention in this country for being more than looks and a mouth but alas the two women in the political news have nothing but that. I truly miss Hillary’s wonkiness and her ability to articulate issues. The political discourse these days plays to the lowest common denominator. No one talks about issues with facts and reason.

  2. Minkoff Minx says:

    Oh BB, that Taibbi article…yes, your description of his yuppie journalism and lack of fact checking is spot on. Your post on Bachmann was more authoritative, insightful and factually correct than that Rolling Stone article.
    Big time Kudos to you!

    Ain’t it great having a Democrat in the White House? Oh wait—-

    Yeah, on Fox and Friends the teaser a few minutes ago was how Al Gore is saying Obama is weak and a failure..and Michelle Malkin is defending Obama.

    Back to reading your post’s links…thanks BB.

    • Pat Johnson says:

      Let me just say this about Al Gore: Had he demanded a recount for the entire state of Florida rather than just 4 counties, we may be looking at a much different nation than what we have today.

      Just saying that when one pol accuses another of being “weak and a failure” then he must be called into account as well for his refusal to go the distance in 2000.

      He may be completely accurate in his depiction of Obama but because of his own failure to bring that whole state total into account we got stuck with 8 years of Bush followed by the rise of the Tea Party and to what avail?

      I like Al Gore and I think he would have made a fine president. But to label Obama as such he is overlooking the flaws in his own campaign that have not done us much good. His foot dragging gave us George W. Bush which led to this debacle and it will take several generations to recover.

  3. bostonboomer says:

    OMG, I can’t believe it!

    Gangster ‘Whitey’ Bulger, who used to ‘own’ Boston, captured

    A man who is about as notorious in Boston as al-Qaida mastermind Osama bin Laden was captured Wednesday in Santa Monica, Calif.

    James “Whitey” Bulger, a gangster wanted for his alleged role in 19 murders who turned his FBI handlers into informants and is accused of using information he got from them to kill his enemies, had been on the run for 16 years.

    As our colleagues at WBUR in Boston report, the now 81-year-old Bulger “led the violent Winter Hill Gang, a largely Irish mob that ran loan-sharking, gambling and drug rackets in the Boston area. He was nicknamed ‘Whitey’ for his shock of bright platinum hair.”

    And WBUR’s David Boeri reminded us on Morning Edition today that there are already FBI agents in jail for their role in both giving Whitey information about his rivals and then tipping him off 16 years ago that he had better hit the road because he was about to be indicted.

    “This is what makes this such a treacherous story,” David said. “It is corruption within the FBI.”

  4. glennmcgahee says:

    I’m sorry but as a resident of Florida I remember all too well the recount fiasco. Our statutes here made a total recount of the state virtually impossible. W
    e have those voting machines, remember those? They are the corrupt computers that leave no paper trail and John Conyers promised to investigate and barely did when a group”American Center for Voting Rights” appeared overnight and was allowed, unchallenged to spew a whole lot of lies about the system. Then when the Democrats won their majority, the entire issue was dropped and now the whole country is at the mercy of these machines.http://www.bradblog.com/?page_id=4418
    As for Bristol’s book, don’t read it if you don’t want to. She has as much right to write her story as somebody writing about an imaginary father that was cooked up on an island in Tahiti.
    And finally, our local news told us about Casey Anthony’s latest story just happens to be the same exact story word for word that is the case of a cellmate’s horrible incident when her child died in a freak accident. They don’t dare put her on the stand as she couldn’t possibly keep her story straight.
    I wonder why Matt, Sullivan, MSNBC, CNN, ABC, FOX hasn’t done an expose or at least a single story on the John Roberts Court and the cabal that controls our Justice System. They’ve now made it impossible for just about any type of class action suit to ever be brought against anybody ever again with their Walmart ruling.
    I’ve always believed that no matter what politicians did, we could rely on our Justice system to make things right and protect us. Obama Justice Dept. is one of the worse I can remember as they seem to be focused on whistleblowers more than anything else. And how is it that Clarence Thomas isn’t being laid bare before the American people, fear of racism perhaps?
    “A high tech lynching”, isn’t that what he called it?
    and finally, for my closing argument, more are catching on:
    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110618/D9NUF6TG0.html
    In my opinion, Palin is not that bad.

  5. Sweet Sue says:

    I’m curious, BB. Why do you say that Cindy Anthony is manipulative and narcissistic?
    I haven’t been following the trial as you have, but she seems like a tortured, heart-broken woman to me.

    • bostonboomer says:

      It would take a long time to explain, but I say that based on what I have read about the family. Casey wouldn’t be the way she is without a lot of environmental as well as genetic input from her parents. I could try to write about it, but I’ve hesitated because I don’t know how many people here would be interested.

      • Pat Johnson says:

        Count me in as one of the interested. Her actions and behavior are truly outside the norm. Psychiatry may have a term they can apply but her sociopathy is to be found in her sheer lack of empathy which has been clearly on display since this case made the headlines.

        Any parent who has the capability to completely ignore the events surrounding the death of a child, – either by accident or design – by laughing, partying, shopping, and having an all round good time, must be kept away from society at large. If the death of her child is any indication, she would be a perfect candidate for committing murder in the future if it serves her means.

        She may not be clinically crazy but she is seriously impaired. Putting her parents on trial alongside of her is another manifestation of her intent. She is essentially evil.

      • bostonboomer says:

        Pat,

        I agree that Casey is evil. I don’t want to put her parents on trial. It’s just my observation from what I have read about the family that both of Casey’s parents have also lied repeatedly, and clearly Cindy manipulated Casey. For example, Casey didn’t even want the baby, and her mother basically forced her into keeping her, because Cindy wanted a baby.

        What nurse (which Cindy is) would not have noticed Casey was pregnant at 7+ months? Anyone looking at a picture of them can see it. She simply didn’t want to deal with what was happening with her daughter. What kind of grandmother would let 31 days go by without seeing her granddaughter–whom she had previously seen every single day of her life? Again, Cindy didn’t want to deal with the situation. Even after Caylee’s body was found and identified, Cindy claimed to believe Caylee was alive!

        Cindy and Casey appear to have had a very push-pull type relationship, with Cindy being very controlling and wanting to know every aspect of Casey’s life. No child grows up to be like Casey without input from family environment. I think Casey is guilty and should go to prison for life without parole. I think she would be dangerous to other people on the outside. But as a developmental psychologist, I can’t help being interested in the family dynamics behind this terrible crime.

      • Minkoff Minx says:

        Yup, put me in the interested pot as well. I have asked for your professional opinion on the people involved in this case. I know that the entire thing has been sensationalized. I have been following it since the first mention in the news of a toddler missing back in July 08. The psychological make up of this family is curious, and I want to learn more.

      • madaha says:

        I’m very interested in how family systems work in conjunction with personality to create disfunction. I’d be glad to read more about it, whether you have further links on that aspect, or if you write more yourself. I do enjoy your analyses.

        on a side note – I can’t believe it only takes 7 to assign someone to death row in FL. WTF???

        (I have not been following the case)

  6. okasha says:

    You’d think Silly Sarah’s association with Franklin Graham would at least induce a bit of caution in the libertarian types. A Dominionist who wants to institute Old Testament law in place of the Constitution isn’t exactly the kind of guy the small government types would find copacetic. Not to mention the conservative serial adulterers like Newt.

    • bostonboomer says:

      Why, when Obama is associated with numerous right wing dominionist “pastors?”

      • okasha says:

        The conservatives hate him despite his actual associations. They’re too busy calling him a “socialist” nd a “secret Muslim” to notice what he really is.

  7. PJ says:

    For what it’s worth, I agree that Cindy Anthony (the grandmother) is a narcissist. Like all narcissists, she is able to feel her own pain – I believe that’s genuine.

    I don’t think Casey committed murder. I think Leonard Padilla (who could be a kook) was right on the money when he said that Casey wanted to party and Caylee was in the way of that – she used chloroform not knowing how dangerous it was and was shocked when it killed Caylee. I think Casey is also a narcissist. Although it’s true that all cold-blooded killers are narcissists, not all narcissists are cold-blooded killers. Even though it was probably an accident, I’m quite sure that Casey feels no remorse – her only regret is the trouble it’s causing her now. Although the attention she’s getting is a nice side benefit. It does show how dangerous narcissists are – even the ones who don’t “intend” to kill you. Just being around them is not good for one’s health.

    • bostonboomer says:

      I think it was an accident with the chloroform too. But did you notice yesterday that ketamine (date rape drug) was also found in Caylee’s hair samples? This woman is guilty of aggravated child abuse, one of the charges against her. In FL, aggravated child abuse conviction means life in prison.

      • Minkoff Minx says:

        Yes, life in prison is what she deserves. I think it could be an accident with the chloroform, but the duct tape is just strange.

        I also think in Florida, the jury has an option to charge her with a lesser offense than what she is charged with or what the Prosecution is pushing for. Which in this case is death.

      • PJ says:

        I hadn’t heard that – sickening. I agree that she deserves life in prison and that’s good to hear that she may get it on the aggravated child abuse charge. I think that would be more fitting. Good for FL!!! Caylee truly did not have a chance being born into that situation. It would be interesting to see the family tree and how far back it goes.

      • okasha says:

        Juries usually have the option of convicting on a “lesser included offense”: manslaughter instead of murder, for instance, or robbery instead of armed robbery.

    • Pat Johnson says:

      If it wasn’t murder then they need to explain the following to me:

      1. George sees the baby for the last tiime around 1pm.
      2. The cell phone tower shows Casey’s phone back in the same neighborhood of the house.
      3. Casey is seen around 8pm that same night going into Blockbuster with her boyfriend.
      4. The boyfriend reveals they spent the entire next day in bed.

      Therefore, Casey had to know, or at least be aware of the fact, that the child, if unconscious from drugs, was in that car trunk for a period exceeding 24 hours withouth being checked.

      My beiief is that she smothered the baby between 2pm and 6pm that first day, placed her in the playhouse for safekeeping, then returned on the 18th and borrowed the shovel from the neighbor to bury her in the backyard. She was unable to physically do it and placed the baby in the car trunk for a period of days until she finally placed her in the woods.

      It also accounts for her unemotional demeanor shown throughout. She kept her mother dangling for those 31 days through constant contact and made up stories about the non existent Nanny.

      This is a young woman with a penchant – and a talent – for lies who stole from her child, her parents, her grandparents, and friends without a care in the world about the consequences. The mother enabled her all along probably to keep the baby close by.

      She probably will get sentenced on a second degree murder charge since the cause of death is uncertain. But I do believe it was intentional, not accidental. Just not sure of the means she employed to carry it out.

      • PJ says:

        You could be right. But all of those facts could also fit with an accidental death. She lied to everyone – including herself. She easily could have told herself that Caylee was fine – simply because she didn’t want to deal with it at the moment. Even if it was 24 hours. I only say this because I think Casey did get quite a bit out of being Caylee’s mom – in a narcissistic kind of way. She wanted to have her cake and eat it too. But once Caylee was gone, well… whole new ballgame. She focused on the positive – freedom. To me, she’s no less a monster if it was accidental rather than intentional. Narcissism is poison – whether it kills you fast or kills you slow.

      • bostonboomer says:

        Pat,

        That’s a very interesting scenario. How could she be sure her parents wouldn’t look in the playhouse though? But it would explain the cadaver dogs hitting near the playhouse.

        Even if the child died from chloroform, it would still be murder. As I understand it, aggravated child abuse is when a child is killed because of abuse. It could even still be first degree murder. The big problem is that the state can’t prove the manner of death or that it was definitely a homicide. On the other hand, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

      • okasha says:

        Does Florida have the type of capital murder law that defines it as (among other things) a killing during the commission of a second felony? Because if it does, the aggravated child abuse charge would cause the death to meet the standard regardless of whether Casey intended to kill her daughter.

  8. bostonboomer says:

    Whitey Bulger had hundreds of thousands in cash and guns when he was busted.

    After embarrassing the FBI and exposing the bureau’s corrupt relationship with its underworld informants, Bulger was finally arrested Wednesday with Greig, just days after the government launched a publicity campaign to locate the fugitive crime boss by circulating pictures of her on daytime TV and on billboards, the FBI said.

    The arrest was based on a tip from the campaign, the FBI said. Bulger was “verbally combative” with authorities but didn’t resist arrest, Orr reports. He eventually settled down and has been speaking with authorities.

    The FBI deemed the tip promising and began surveillance on the apartment complex just after 4 p.m. on Wednesday, federal officials said. They said agents soon spotted Bulger and Greig, and using a ruse they wouldn’t explain, lured Bulger out of his apartment. They then arrested him without incident, and then arrested Greig, officials said….Bulger had a $2 million reward on his head and rose to No. 1 on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted list after Osama bin Laden was killed.

    • Minkoff Minx says:

      This is another criminal case that is real interesting too. What is the buzz over in Boston like BB?

      Oh yeah, did you hear that OJ is confessing to Oprah?

      • bostonboomer says:

        I thought OJ was in prison. I think people in Boston wonder why the FBI couldn’t find Whitey a long time ago, and why FBI agents helped him get away with murder.

    • foxyladi14 says:

      justice at last…

  9. Sweet Sue says:

    My only quibble is that I hope we’re not doing a “cherchez la femme” thing, here, by assigning blame to the grandmother. We’re not talking about the grandfather, although, he’s an admitted adulterer.
    When Cindy is on the stand, I see a broken woman. Her affect is so different from her daughter’s cold indifference.
    Nurture over nature, sure, but it’s not all nurture.
    I, for instance, have a mental condition (depression) but my two sisters do not.
    We had the same parents and the same upbringing for good or ill.
    Maybe, just maybe, to qoute La Dame Gaga, Casey was born that wa-ay.

    • bostonboomer says:

      I’m talking about the grandfather. I’ve said he has lied and he may have been violent. I wouldn’t doubt for one minute that he sexually abused his daughter. I don’t know for sure, but kids don’t grow up to be sociopaths without some bad stuff happening to them.

      From what I can see, Cindy was the dominant one in the marriage. She earned the money, she even got her husband to quit his job as a homicide detective and go to work for his father, whom he hated. Just listening to her testimony in court, it’s clear that Cindy kept track of Casey’s every move. That’s why I find it troubling that Cindy didn’t hunt Casey down and find out where Caylee was.

      No, it’s not all nurture. Every psychological disorder has a genetic component. But that too comes from the parents. Depression is a little different from what Casey has. She has a personality disorder, not a “mental illness.” She doesn’t seem to have any empathy for other people at all. I think she killed her child because she wanted to spite her mother and because she didn’t want her mother to have the child. That’s pretty darn evil.

      • PJ says:

        “That’s why I find it troubling that Cindy didn’t hunt Casey down and find out where Caylee was.”

        I find that strange too – it doesn’t fit with Cindy’s normal behavior. Do you think she suspected something, but didn’t want to face it?

      • Minkoff Minx says:

        Well, Cindy’s testimony today makes me think the entire family should be locked up in some sort of nut house.

        Casey Anthony Trial: Cindy Anthony Says She Searched for Chloroform on Computer – ABC News

        Now she is all of a sudden changing her story…I know she is trying to save her daughter’s life but man…what a dysfunctional family this is.

      • PJ says:

        Whoa. I sure didn’t see that one coming.

      • bostonboomer says:

        What did I tell you? Push-pull. Once minute she’s very loving, the next she pulls the rug out and does something guilt-inducing or ego-destroying. That is crazy-making for a child. My guess is that is why Casey learned to construct complex lies–to defend against her mother’s invasiveness and control. I hope they prosecute Cindy for perjury and obstruction of justice.

      • PJ says:

        I think you’re exactly right – wow.

        I’d like to see Cindy prosecuted too…