What Did Pakistan know and when did it know it?
Posted: May 2, 2011 Filed under: Foreign Affairs, Pakistan | Tags: Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden, Pakistan 83 Comments
The big question remaining in the operation that killed the world’s most wanted man is the role of Pakistan in the operation and in the last living arrangements of Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden and his 4th mail order bride and associates were living in a mansion in a military town close to a military base. This is sure to raise a lot of questions. There are several media outlets and blogs asking these questions. Those already included are TPM.
The Democrats’ top armed services expert on Capitol Hill says Pakistan’s military and intelligence have grave questions to answer after Osama Bin Laden was killed in an elaborate compound, deep inside Pakistan, near a top Pakistani military facility.
“I think that the Pakistani army and intelligence have a lot of questions to answer, given the location, the length of time, and the apparent fact that this facility was built for bin Laden, and its closeness to the central location to the Pakistani army,” said Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI), who chairs the Senate Armed Services committee, in a Capitol briefing with reporters Monday morning.
“I think the Pakistani president’s statement today was a very reassuring statement — when he very specifically said that he thinks that it’s a great victory and a success, and to congratulate us on the success of the operation,” Levin added. “So reassured by his statement, not necessarily suspicious that he knew, or the civilian leadership knew. But I must tell you I hope that he will follow through — that the President of Pakistan Hardari will follow through and ask some very tough questions with his own military and his own intelligence. They’ve got a lot of explaining to do.”
A number of reports — including from President Obama himself — indicate that Pakistan facilitated the intelligence that ultimately led U.S. forces to bin Laden’s compound.
Response to the operation appears to depend on the source . The current President of Pakistan signals that Pakistan was in on the operation. However, former President Pervez Musharif of Pakistan questioned the operation and its impact on Pakistani soverignity. He did add that it would’ve been better for Pakistani special ops to carry out the mission. Since the mansion was built in 2005, this raises some questions about the possibility that some Pakistani officials may have known,
Former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf on Monday accused the U.S. of violating his country’s sovereignty by sending in special forces to kill Osama bin Laden.
“American troops coming across the border and taking action in one of our towns, that is Abbottabad, is not acceptable to the people of Pakistan. It is a violation of our sovereignty,” Mr. Musharraf told CNN-IBN, an Indian news channel.
He added that it would have been “far better if Pakistani Special Services Group had operated and conducted the mission. To that extent, the modality of handling it and executing the operation is not correct.”
“For some time there will be a lot of tension between Washington and Islamabad because Bin Laden seems to have been living here close to Islamabad,” Imtiaz Gul, a Pakistani security analyst, told Reuters. “Pakistan will have to do a lot of damage control. This is a serious blow to the credibility of Pakistan.”
In Kabul, Karzai seized on the news of Bin Laden’s death to criticise the US-led coalition, complaining that it was focused on counter-insurgency operations in the Pashtun south of Afghanistan rather than Taliban safe havens over the border.
“Year after year, day after day, we have said the fighting against terrorism is not in the villages of Afghanistan, not among the poor people of Afghanistan,” he said. “The fight against terrorism is in safe havens. It proves that Afghanistan was right.”
Aminuddin Muzafary, secretary of the High Peace Council established by Karzai, said Bin Laden’s death “removed the curtain from Pakistan’s face.” He added: “His death shows the unfaithfulness of Pakistan but it is also possible that it was a business deal between the CIA and the ISI. Time will reveal whether or not this was a deal or something else.”
The news was “very worrying,” said Abdullah Abdullah, Afghanistan’s top opposition leader. “Just a few weeks ago the Pakistanis were insisting that the US military and intelligence operations should be stopped in Pakistan and their agents should leave the country.”
The NYT’s Jane Perlez believes this questions will likely lead to suspicions of Pakistan. What will happen in US-Pakistani relations?
The killing of Osama bin Laden deep inside Pakistan in an American operation, almost in plain sight in a medium-sized city that hosts numerous Pakistani forces, seems certain to further inflame tensions between the United States and Pakistan and raise significant questions about whether elements of the Pakistani spy agency knew the whereabouts of the leader of Al Qaeda.
The presence of Bin Laden in Pakistan, something Pakistani officials have long dismissed, goes to the heart of the lack of trust Washington has felt over the last 10 years with its contentious ally, the Pakistani military and its powerful spy partner, the Inter-Services Intelligence.
Interestingly enough, CNN reports that several Pakistani officials are disputing President Obama’s claim that this was a joint operation.
On bin Laden, President Obama said Pakistan helped provide intelligence that led the U.S. to the terrorist leader and praised Pakistan for its “close counterterrorism cooperation” but said no other country, including Pakistan, knew about the operation in advance.
Several Pakistani officials disputed Obama’s account, claiming credit for what they called a joint U.S.-ISI operation.
A senior Pakistani intelligence official said the U.S. intelligence was developed from information that the Pakistanis had gathered: mostly electronic intercepts that the source said the Pakistanis regularly provide to the U.S.
“Somehow it slipped from our radar and was picked up on theirs,” the official said.
The U.S. has long suspected that bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan, although officials suspected that he was given safe haven in the country’s remote tribal areas along the border with Afghanistan. In July, while in Pakistan, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton accused the Pakistani government of not doing enough in the hunt for bin Laden, suggesting that the government knew where he was.
The fact that bin Laden was found in a small city that is so close to the capital of Islamabad and home to the country’s military academy raises more questions than answers about how he could avoid capture for so long.
Did Pakistan’s ISI, long believed to have ties to al Qaeda and the Taliban, provide bin Laden sanctuary in Abbottabad? Did it tip the U.S. off to his whereabouts? Or was the government completely ignorant that the world’s most famous terrorist was living in the city?
The answers to those questions are critical and will go a long way to determining the course of the relationship going forward. They could both confirm Washington’s greatest concerns about Pakistan’s commitment to fighting terrorism and deepen mistrust on both sides, or they will prove Pakistan to be a genuine partner in the fight against extremism, which could create goodwill on both sides and give the relationship a much-needed boost.
Now that the FBI has updated its most-wanted list and the news has been spread around the world, many of the details of the operation as well as the search for intelligence on Bin Laden’s whereabouts will undoubtedly take center stage. Another question that will eventually arise will be the role of CIA interviews in collecting the information as well as the possible role of at least one Guantanamo detainee and the discovery of identities of Bin Laden couriers. It’s interesting to watch all the celebrations around Ground Zero and the White House, but I am going to be much more interested in the LeCarre-like stuff that will follow. It will also be interesting to watch the growing questions surrounding Pakistan’s knowledge of the Bin Laden compound.
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Lindsey Graham questions decision not to hold onto the body. I knew that was coming.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/158599-sen-graham-questions-bin-ladens-burial-
I don’t get the need to bow down to Islamic law on this burial thing. Seems pretty stupid to me. Personally, I don’t feel that Osama deserved to be treated in that manner. He was a heretic of the highest order who was hiding behind Islam as a means to advance his personal agenda and using that religion as a tool to excuse his villainy. Much the same way they hid behind those women in that compound.
Also, if they did this as a concession to other terrorists they shouldn’t have even bothered. They are going to be incited to violence regardless of what we did with the body.
They don’t want to incite the populace of practitioners. It’s out of respect for them. Sort’ve like we bend over backwards not to offend some of our more strict religious sects.
They’ll be offended anyway. After all, the U.S. government killed him.
Okay, this is interesting. The DOD spokesman say that Pakistani jets were scrambled because Pakistan had no idea what was going on.
I’m listening to the press conference.
We DID not notify Pakistanis until out of their airspace. They were scrambling “assets” in reaction to the operation and No Pakistani forces were engaged.
it’s John Brennan btw … he just said Tora Bora was the last credible evidence they had…
He just said that this is “one of the gutsiest calls” he’s ever seen by a CIC/POTUS
he says they could’ve taken the compound out from a remote location … they did get ‘assets’ (i.e. papers) so that’s obviously something important plus they got other people there with OBL. So, this was more dangerous but ‘rewarding’ in ways
Yes! Very interesting…
He’s praising Pakistan right now and president Zardari… says they’ve taken out more terrorists than any other country even though they have had issues with them
I noticed that…and when Hillary Clinton spoke she reiterated the importance of Pakistan. I wonder how handling Pakistan with kid gloves will affect the investigation into exactly what Pakistan knew…and how much assistance they gave OBL.
Wikileaks was too much of an insight into Pakistan, were as they US gave billions to Pakistan to fight terrorists, and they in turn made it into a business…giving the Taliban $$$, to in turn shoot/kill our soldiers. The latter was very upsetting for me…especially since they will receive upwards of 7 billion dollars in five years time.
Truly a sad situation, since they are supposed to be our allies… 😦
Brennan is saying that OBL used the woman as the shield that got killed. Says it speaks to the type of person he was …
I noticed that Brennan said it was Bin Laden who used the shield… which seems to contradict the following from Gretaawire… It’s fox, so obviously take that into account, but Greta posted the e-mail on the backgrounder from DoD… .. which says that it wasn’t OBL but someone else who used the woman as a shield:
http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/here-is-the-background-info-on-the-burial-at-sea-of-bin-laden/#ixzz1LDjpHb8s
yeah, I caught that…posted that link on the Monday reads down thread and noticed that specifically
I am waiting to see what Shep Smith says about this…he is the only one I will watch over there at Fox.
Brennan says that we’re going to do every thing we can to show that we killed OBL… they’re talking about the visual evidence/pictures and dna results and conduct of operation
They’re asking about the burial … was it video’d, was an imam there…
Not real answers (so far that is)… Brennan’s basically saying no comment beyond they consulted people about the most appropriate way to handle the body…but won’t go into who they consulted.
No word from Zbigniew Brzezinski?
Zig will probably be on Mika’s show when they decide to fit it in.
Well, he helped to get him started, but in my opinion failed to do a full psych profile and they didn’t keep tabs on him there after, nor his associates. It bothers me when people like Zbigniew Brzezinski have their spoons in every political event but never really answer any questions.
So, the Indian government was correct and Usama Bin Laden was in Pakistan carrying out his terror missions.
Yup, someone has some SPLAININ to do me THINKS!
The most shocking part is how Usama Bin Laden was a master of foolery getting many poor people to buy into his brand of oppressive religiosity. He told them he was like them, living in a CAVE which turned out to be a Two Story MANSION, 800 yards from Pakistan’s top Military Academy and Usama Bin Laden died whie hiding behind a woman’s in burqa who became his human shield!.
The Indian Government told the Dubya government where he was in Pakistan a few days after 9/11. He was getting his dialysis there. I thought that was a weird story but it was all over the Indian press.
I have to say, I get sick when I hear someone on the teli say, that Usama Bin Laden didn’t have cable or internet at his two story mansion with all his people at his service, as if he was roughing it.
The worst part is when Pakistan would pass on intel about a possible cave and our guys were climbing and risking life and limb to go into these darn caves to search for him!
Osama Bin Laden died near military academy .[ Sky News Australia]
I thought I saw a big satellite dish? Was it there for show?
Here is a link to images of the compound:
PhotoBlog – Osama bin Laden’s hideout revealed
This is interesting: Compound in Pakistan was once a safe house
Oh wow! Makes it all even more strange…
Only one question so far regarding keeping so many US military in Afghanistan?
These “journalists” know who pays their bills…the MIC. They are not going to upset any applecarts here. The War on Feelings puts food on their families!
Osama bin Laden movie already in the works.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/sns-rt-entertainment-us-bitre7415es-20110502,0,7459535.story
Interesting, too, that it is Kathryn Bigelow who did Hurt Locker – which was excellent.
eeks! There’s a Google ad at the end of this post for Asian mail order brides……
How I do hate Google with all my heart…..
UGH. Do you happen to recall what the url/domain was? I’ll go in and block it.
Sorry I’m not too savvy – it looks like they change those up – it wasn’t there when I went back.
No prob. Next time if you or anyone else sees something it would help if y’all could note the url for us so we can zap these nasty ads. We already put a general block for sensitive content but that doesn’t seem to be foolproof.
Thanks for letting us know!
A witness account of Bin Laden’s death
More to come from this interview. Does anyone know who shot down the helicopter?
I think I heard them say the woman was Bin Laden’s 4th wife. I am supposed to be working here in my home office – but have TV on in the other room….this is distracting to say the least.
Me too, and it’s billing day! 😆
I will have to report myself to the boss. 😉
He used his wife as a human shield.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/white-house-osama-bin-laden-used-woman-as-human-shield.php
Lets see – if I were Gadaffe, I would havc to think about the folloing; 1) The US killed OBL and 2)recently bombed his home, I would suspect he is looking for a safe place to live.
I think the Hague is after him for war crime also. The famous story out of the Gulf war was; the Iraqi tank commander said the tank to the left was blown up, the tank to the right of him was blown up, he got out of his tank as fast as he could.
Gadaffee has to be having the same feelings
I would think Gadaffe would have the same feeling
To quote Mo… Gaddafi needs to leave… RIP…Mo and many others were good Libyan people that just wanted to be free and died fighting for their freedom.
Yes, there is plenty evidence of Gaddafi’s war crimes.
Oh, my, quotes didn’t make it. 😦
I was thinking the same think FL!
Live now, with interviews from neighbors and the Tweeter who live Tweeted the op in his neighborhoods.
This is NOT a good sign. 😦
Sorry I linked to myself?
San Francisco Protest Video That The White House Threatened Newspaper Over
Noam Chomsky on Obama’s presidency
If manning is to be tried in a military court and they take into account or take their lead from the President who is in charge of the military, how can Bradley Manning get a fair trial?
Could this be the first test case to fight for a trial outside of a military court? Is Bradley Manning doomed at 22 years of his young life? Should our soldiers not get a fair trial? Why were charges taken off the table by Pelosi and Obama for Bush II, Cheney and his top administration? The latter never even had to deal with any charges.
Very sad, for Bradley Manning and it will be no better for Assange if he is extradited here…as he will be tried in Gitmo as an enemy combatant.
I love Noam Chomsky!
BB, Have you read any of his books? If so which ones would you recommend? Chromsky wrote the preface to a book on Cuba that I linked to in one of my Sunday post. Anyway…any suggestions?
Chomsky is so clear and concise. That statement was 100% on target.
Obama is so eloguent, isn’t he?
/snark
Has anyone heard what they did with the body of the woman and Osama’s son? Did they bury them at sea within 24 hours???
It’s infuriating how reporters miss the obvious questions.
Yeah, good questions.
Allison, here’s some info on the other bodies and injured people from the Christian Science Monitor
Oh, brother, my husband who is so benign and although not a fan of Obama has never been a basher either, stated at dinner tonight “I don’t know- something just doesn’t feel right about this. Why deep six him so quickly? Perhaps he died a while ago and was on ice until Obama really needed something to pull up his ratings.”
I did feel like something was “off” last night but didn’t say anything and good grief everyone is all over this so I guess it’s right.
I am invited to dinner with ex-military and am told that is what he wants to discuss (It is his B -Day). 😆 When ex-military start that, you really need to be given a report of a solid plot, or some solid evidence since WikiLeaks said he was there since 2008.
Maybe it has to do with a video sent to people recently…that I am going to hear about tonight too (I haven’t followed that theory at all.).
Photos of the lovely city that bin Ladin was living in.
Boy, he was really roughing it out, in a resort town, with military neighbors and a military academy 800 yards away….someone felt welcomed there!
That’s unbelievable…
A psychopath living in the lap of luxury while exhorting young kids to go blow themselves up.
You mean like our president?
Clinton speaks about Osama Bin Laden’s death
Boy, our girl looks really tired – and her longer hair ages her as well.
I think she looks more serious and deliberate in that vid than tired, but that’s just me. (Also that the long hair really suits her. again, jmho)
I agree, with wonk, and makes sense, which to me is far more important and she never says ‘Like’ or ‘lika’…. 😉
Oh ferchrissakes – CNN using this as an excuse to trot out video of the 9/11 attacks complete with crowds screaming and GWB bullhorn rally cry, etc., etc.
I’m turning it off right now – then going to the vet’s for community cat rescue!!!
lol. That was on NPR too.
This is funny. Pakistan ambassador tells Jeffrey Goldberg, “America Can’t Find Whitey Bulger, So Why Do You Expect Us to Locate Bin Laden?”
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/pakistani-ambassador-america-cant-find-whitey-bulger-so-why-do-you-expect-us-to-locate-bin-laden/238156/
For those who don’t know, Whitey Bulger is a notorious Boston gangster who went on the lam after his protector in the FBI got arrested. He’s on the ten most wanted list.
Here is a picture of the administration watching the attack on bin laden. There faces say everything,it is an amazing picture.
http://m.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/
That is an amazing photo.
The hand up to Hillary’s mouth is very telling…
Why is the room so small? And yes, it I don’t think you could get people to pretend those expressions ( I draw and they look like the real deal).
New bin Laden post up above.
DAK,
You nailed this one, as the bi-line is the the topic of discussion this morning on the morning shows and the news reports of related news.
Thanks for the insight!
Oh, thanks for letting me comment on these posts, as I have been working very long hours and so miss the interaction. Nice to read all the comments too.
Thanks 🙂
It won’t be long before people on the left are calling him St. Obama. After all, he is sole-ly responsible for taking down Osama bin Laden/aka ending terrorism….The same guy who could do nothing about the leaking Gulf wells….and zilch about getting decent health insurance reform..and was completely helpless in fixing the banking mess…and could do absolutely nothing about the tax cut….that guy got himself the mastermind of 9/11….never mind any of the work the CIA might have done in the past. It was ALL OBAMA!
Wow.
Color me snarky.
I laugh, too, when I see Democrats labeling those of us who are a little suspicious of the 5-minute burial, “conspiracy theorists.” Next we’ll be called racists. So they used a sister to ID Osama’s DNA…hmmm, maybe the guy they buried at sea was Osama’s 6’5″ brother….We’ll never know.
I vent, therefore I am.
But of course, this is all just another act in the play we call our political system.
it’s not people on the left who are supporting him. It appears to be moderate republicans who aren’t aligned with the party … Like arianna and others who shun a liberal label and have created this progressive moniker.
Talkleft loves him, KOS loves him. If you ask them, Obama has the 2012 election SEALED because of this.