SOS! Eyewash bottles needed NOW!
Posted: August 15, 2012 Filed under: 2012 presidential campaign | Tags: Romney/Ryan, Ryan budget 77 Comments
I’m going to wax prosaically or rant poetically or maybe just do some wondering out loud.
I’m watching a disturbing phenomenon from supposed liberals and former Hillary supporters. A small, vocal, angry ol’ bunch of them are trying to bend themselves into pretzels of moral self-justification to support what is undoubtedly the most radical right presidential duo the republicans have ever stuck up for consideration. It was easy for me to originally see folks falling for the Romney pitch abut 6 months ago because, well, he seemed so normal and moderate as a Massachusetts governor. A lot of research later and I’m completely disabused of this notion. There are now several sites I can’t visit without wanting to take a lemon zester to my eyes. It’s like a whole bunch of them just went full metal teabagger from anger poisoning. Unfortunately, some of them troll us and our trash gets nasty too.
Those of us here–and places like Reclusive Leftist, Cannonfire, Tennessee Guerrilla Women and the Widdershins— have been watching things closely enough to see that Romney’s made such a rush to the right wing of the party that there’s no denying this must be where he actually feels most comfortable. The stories of his “lying for the lord” to get near the Massachusetts governorship must’ve been more than just fleeting rumors. By now, almost any politically informed person knows that Romney owes whatever soul he has to the radical right and the big money donors funding his campaign and his superpacs. Additionally, to not know that Paul Ryan is one of the worst of the worst in Congress is inexcusable to any one that considers themselves a political junkie. I’ve sat through two budget terms with him and I’ve frankly never seen anything worse in terms of acceptability and reality for the majority of the American Electorate. Any one trying to white wash this guy must be one very confused and wrongly motivated voter. It would be easy for me to pull up all the research by Dean Baker, Paul Krugman, Brad Delong, Mark Thoma or the CBO or more neutral economists and provide information on the hocus pocus right wing scheme that is the complete hoax called the Ryan Budget. David Stockman–budget director to Ronnie Raygun–did it beautifully yesterday from a view point that should even give Republicans the willies about voting for deadly duo. He referred to it as the “Fairy-Tale Budget Plan” and the obsession with inconsequential regulation.
The greatest regulatory problem — far more urgent that the environmental marginalia Mitt Romney has fumed about — is that the giant Wall Street banks remain dangerous quasi-wards of the state and are inexorably prone to speculative abuse of taxpayer-insured deposits and the Fed’s cheap money. Forget about “too big to fail.” These banks are too big to exist — too big to manage internally and to regulate externally. They need to be broken up by regulatory decree. Instead, the Romney-Ryan ticket attacks the pointless Dodd-Frank regulatory overhaul, when what’s needed is a restoration of Glass-Steagall, the Depression-era legislation that separated commercial and investment banking.
Mr. Ryan showed his conservative mettle in 2008 when he folded like a lawn chair on the auto bailout and the Wall Street bailout. But the greater hypocrisy is his phony “plan” to solve the entitlements mess by deferring changes to social insurance by at least a decade.
A true agenda to reform the welfare state would require a sweeping, income-based eligibility test, which would reduce or eliminate social insurance benefits for millions of affluent retirees. Without it, there is no math that can avoid giant tax increases or vast new borrowing. Yet the supposedly courageous Ryan plan would not cut one dime over the next decade from the $1.3 trillion-per-year cost of Social Security and Medicare.
Instead, it shreds the measly means-tested safety net for the vulnerable: the roughly $100 billion per year for food stamps and cash assistance for needy families and the $300 billion budget for Medicaid, the health insurance program for the poor and disabled. Shifting more Medicaid costs to the states will be mere make-believe if federal financing is drastically cut.
Likewise, hacking away at the roughly $400 billion domestic discretionary budget (what’s left of the federal budget after defense, Social Security, health and safety-net spending and interest on the national debt) will yield only a rounding error’s worth of savings after popular programs (which Republicans heartily favor) like cancer research, national parks, veterans’ benefits, farm aid, highway subsidies, education grants and small-business loans are accommodated.
Like his new boss, Mr. Ryan has no serious plan to create jobs. America has some of the highest labor costs in the world, and saddles workers and businesses with $1 trillion per year in job-destroying payroll taxes. We need a national sales tax — a consumption tax, like the dreaded but efficient value-added tax — but Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan don’t have the gumption to support it.
The Ryan Plan boils down to a fetish for cutting the top marginal income-tax rate for “job creators” — i.e. the superwealthy — to 25 percent and paying for it with an as-yet-undisclosed plan to broaden the tax base. Of the $1 trillion in so-called tax expenditures that the plan would attack, the vast majority would come from slashing popular tax breaks for employer-provided health insurance, mortgage interest, 401(k) accounts, state and local taxes, charitable giving and the like, not to mention low rates on capital gains and dividends. The crony capitalists of K Street already own more than enough Republican votes to stop that train before it leaves the station.
In short, Mr. Ryan’s plan is devoid of credible math or hard policy choices. And it couldn’t pass even if Republicans were to take the presidency and both houses of Congress. Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have no plan to take on Wall Street, the Fed, the military-industrial complex, social insurance or the nation’s fiscal calamity and no plan to revive capitalist prosperity — just empty sermons.
Indeed, we saw a group of GOP anonymous strategists tell Politic0 that the Ryan Choice was likely a concession to not winning come November. This many Republicans don’t usually come out of the woodwork to eat their own when they really hate the sitting president.
In more than three dozen interviews with Republican strategists and campaign operatives — old hands and rising next-generation conservatives alike — the most common reactions to Ryan ranged from gnawing apprehension to hair-on-fire anger that Romney has practically ceded the election.
It is not that the public professions of excitement about the Ryan selection are totally insincere. It is that many of the most optimistic Republican operatives will privately acknowledge that their views are being shaped more by fingers-crossed hope than by a hard-headed appraisal of what’s most likely to happen.
(PHOTOS: Paul Ryan hearts charts)
And the more pessimistic strategists don’t even feign good cheer: They think the Ryan pick is a disaster for the GOP. Many of these people don’t care that much about Romney — they always felt he faced an improbable path to victory — but are worried that Ryan’s vocal views about overhauling Medicare will be a millstone for other GOP candidates in critical House and Senate races.
Let’s get to the caveats: No one is asserting that Washington operatives in either party are oracles or seers. What’s more, it is not as if there is anything like unanimity in GOP circles about the merits of the Ryan pick, though the mood of anxiety and skepticism is overwhelming.
Most of all, if you are one of those people who thinks if someone has something negative to say, they should have the guts to put their name on it, you won’t find much to impress you in this article. Nearly all the Republican professionals interviewed for this story said they would share their unfiltered views only “on background” rules of attribution.
But Washington political chatter is a pervasive reality even when the chatterers prefer not to risk personal relationships or professional prospects by publicly second-guessing their party’s nominee. For Romney, even if he ultimately proves the doubters wrong, the skepticism among capital insiders is an obstacle as he seeks to frame a general election argument.
And that skepticism about Ryan among GOP strategists is striking.
Ryan’s Budget plan is anathema to any one that relies or will rely on Social Security and Medicare. This basically means every one that’s not extremely wealthy. In fact, the choice of Ryan is so stark that Romney “sees no immediate bounce” from his choice. Unlike the unknown Palin who no one knew and who originally got the benefit of the doubt ,every one knows Ryan. Only the most hard core right wingers like him. He basically oozes the Koch Brothers agenda. He scores zero on Gay Rights and Reproductive Choice. He’s gone out of his way to push for right wing social agendas as well as destruction of safety net and entitlement programs. He’s not a reformer. He’s Shiva on steroids.
Interestingly enough, it’s possible that the choice of Ryan has already hurt the Republicans in a key areas and demographics. This is from the Jewish Week and speaks directly to a primary result in Florida yesterday where Republicans took down some one who was very much a Ryan supporter. Similar analysis can be found at the Jewish Journal.
But the damage may already be done. The budget pushed by Ryan as the Tea Party-leaning chair of the House Budget Committee in April of 2011 proposed privatizing Social Security and replacing Medicare with a voucher plan. This year, he proposed the creation of a Medicare exchange that would have the program paying for or subsidizing payments to private plans.
Those who depend on government benefits tend to get uneasy when politicians talk about radical changes in them — which some call entitlement reform — and polls show that Jewish voters are among the biggest boosters of public safety nets. The Jewish Federations of North America and the Jewish Council for Public Affairs — the two leading umbrella groups addressing economic issues — wrote letters to Congress opposing less government control of Medicare in response to Ryan’s plan.
So despite what polls show as diminished Jewish support for President Barack Obama since his estimated 78 percent share in 2008 — largely attributed to his posture toward Israel — analysts say Romney’s ability to exploit that weakness as Republican operatives and donors make a major play for Jewish votes could be offset by his choice of running mate.
“On the domestic policy side, [the choice of Ryan] presents significant problems for anybody who supports Medicare and any of the safety-net social programs, which in general is the Jewish vote,” said Ester Fuchs, a professor of public affairs and political science at Columbia University.
“I don’t see this as anything that positively affects Romney’s standing within the Jewish community,” Fuchs continued. “In fact, I think it will put some of the fence-sitters into the Obama camp, particularly seniors in New York and Florida.”
The Jewish Daily Forward had this analysis of the Florida Race.
Paul Ryan’s arrival on the Republican presidential ticket is changing the subject among Florida Jews — and that could be good news for President Obama.
For months, Republicans have worked to win Jews in the key swing state with their critique of Obama’s perceived less-than-robust support of Israel. But Mitt Romney’s selection of Ryan turns the focus to the GOP rising star’s proposed cuts to entitlement programs like Medicare, the federal health care program for the elderly on which many Florida Jews rely.
A pitched battle over Medicare in Florida is one that Democrats think they can win hands down, especially among Jewish voters.
“Romney has made my job much easier,” said former New York City mayor Ed Koch, who plans to campaign for Obama among Florida Jews this fall. “Israel is no longer the issue…. It has now shifted, and Romney shifted it.”
So, given all this information that is readily available on Paul Ryan’s Randian Dystopian future for America, given that Romney has absolutely no articulated plans on anything other than more tax cuts, and given his embrace of the Ryan Budget, WTF are former Hillary voters thinking when they try to justify voting for these two? I’m not suggesting any one go out and vote for Obama. There’s other options out there. Dr. Jill Stein comes to my mind. How could you look past all this information that’s already out there on Ryan, confabulate some narrative that makes all this information just lies and conspiracy, and still consider yourself in step with Hillary Clinton’s vision for America?
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I’m so glad you wrote this – I’m not the only one, yeah. Although as a Canuck I cannot vote in your elections, I have always closely followed them as it affects us, perhaps not today, but long term, it affects us. I must confess, I absolutely would have been a Hillary supporter were I an American, so of course I migrated to those sites that were objective or Hillary supporters. In the past two years, I’ve seen site after site taken over by those that claim they are disaffected Hillary supporters, but perhaps because I was an outsider, I could read that they never truly were, just lining up credentials to put forward their own views in a passive aggressive way. I’ve seen at least five sites that I used to be a daily lurker, gradually turn in a totally 180 degree turnaround, and have watched as former regular commenters have left because of the takeover. worse, the blogmeisters have either turned themselves, or don’t seem to realize that thye have been propagandized and have become now, through groupspeak, propagandizers themselves. I miss the days past, however I marvel at how easy it was to infiltrate and influence what I considered at one time, intelligent blogs. Today – here, Widdershins, Cannonfire, Dr Socks and TGW, plus a few on the west coast (and of course Twisty).
It was bad enough when it was Palin Fetishes and Romney curiosity, but making up shit to justify supporting Ryan is sick, sick sick! It’s like watching those Teabaggers with the signs that said Government! Keep your hands off my Medicare! Total disconnect from reality.
Those who call themselves liberals while pushing support for right wing republican policies and the associated politicians, like Romney and Ryan, are either lying to themselves and/or everyone else. It’s just not possible to be one while doing the other.
Yeah, I know – from my perspective it’s also the really odious use of “socialism” when not one of them knows the true meaning, or realizes that the U.S. Government intervention in things like infrastructure, job creation etc are all forms of “socialism” particularly as it applies to Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, SNAP, Title IX and other forms of benefits to the general population. Worse is listening to the harangues of the horrors of socialism as it pertains to Universal Health Care, which of course I’m a beneficiary. They don’t even understand that these programs are not gifts of the government – every taxpayer contributes to a pot that is put into providing the program. It is not an “Entitlement” program – I really hate that term “entitlement”. It is not as if the government just makes money out of thin air and hands it out to the people who never work for free. Sorry, I’m getting carried away here, however it frosts my tonsils (how’s that for a throwback phrase) to read crap like those that seem to be endemic in the discourse these days. Sure my taxes are higher – because our UHC is a pot, and those who pay into it as an insurance, cover those who cannot because they need all their money to pay for housing and food on the table. Yes there is fraud, so search out the fraud and deal with it. Taking food and health care from those who are unable to pay is anathema to me. there have been four times I’ve been in hospital – three times for delivery, and one time for a life threatening illness – total cost to me – $0.00. I also have the ability to have a complete physical once per year (although I don’t take advantage of that because I have an unreasoning hatred of Doctors – previous experience and really do not like them). My children have also been blessed in that they have not had to be in hospital at all, yet they have been to emergency – cost to me $0.00. Why? Because I’ve been paying taxes to support UHC for the last 50 years. Now our current government is looking at what is happening in the U.S. and the war business is so intriguing that they are spending more on that and trying to cut our health care. See what happens there does influence us here. I really hate, hate what is happening today.
My short answer is, I don’t know how anyone who was for Hillary Clinton, that lives in a state say Florida like I do, could not vote or do a Nader. Especially as a woman or people with parents. Hey, girl, That covers a lot of ground, Ha. I’ve never been mad enough to kick myself in the ass.
Great Post Dak!!!! I believe these people never were ideologically liberal or progressive, but were instead virulently anti-Obama neo-conservatives who jumped on the Hillary bandwagon as a way to undercut the election and now re-election of Obama.
Hell, I was totally anti-Obama, I even cast a protest vote for McCain in a deep red state. The only time in my life I’ve voted for a Republican, BUT THAT VOTE WAS CAST
PRE-TEAPARTY. Since the rise of the Tea Party and the takeover of the U.S. House of Representatives and State Legislatures by the Anti-Choice, anti-contraception, anti-gay, anti-social safety net, anti-union, anti-workers rights TeaBots we’ve seen the slow unmasking of the ratfucker-bloggers as they push to redefine and rewrite the actions of the GOP/TP over the past 4 years, and it ain’t gonna work!!!!
I’m sure there are a few people who are still with the pretzel twisters who actually supported Hillary and are so caught up in the anti-Obama hysteria they can’t see the forest for the trees, but I think those folks are becoming more rare with each passing day .
As this campaign moves forward we, in the Hillary Supporter blogosphere, are getting to see the wheat (Liberals/progressives) as it separates from the chaff (Extreme Right Wing ideologues/Tea Partiers) and we’re stunned that people we believed to be allies, friends, cohorts are finally revealing what they’ve always been, RATFUCKERS. They just need to be honest and OWN IT, because intentionally or not, the veil is lifted.
Anonomouse, I don’t even know whether those folks who were actually Hillary supporters, as opposed to the r@tF@ckers even realize what has happened, or whether they’ve been carried along in a tsunami of Obama hatred and have forgotten what it is to think rationally, logically and critically in dealing with their hatred of what happened in 2008. What I do know is that their hatred is now pathological, because they are asking people to vote against their own best interests in order to teach the Democratic Party a lesson.
“What I do know is that their hatred is now pathological,”
To say the least, They beat the Obama hatred drum so loudly everyday, they’re deaf to all other things.
HT, I love it when your write comments like these. In other words, I love it when you de-lurk!
Oh yeah, and you too Mouse.
Agreed. The Body Snatchers have gotten to them. RUNNN!!!
Actually, all us denizens are really worried about the fact that last winter was two, count em two major snowfalls, and neither of them lasted for more than a few hours, and the snow was gone by the end of the next day due to the melting. In bygone days, I can remember getting out my cross country skis going out to help my friends to shovel out. No longer. And worse, snow is important for the crops – the melting used to saturate the ground so that farmers could seed and not have to irrigate, becaue the ground had enough moisture to assist with germination. No longer. Believe it or not, we true Canucks miss those snow storms. To see birds that use to go south, no longer migrate, and to watch all round birds and animals move further north. We don’t like it at all. And I really miss the monarch butterflies – they don’t come here anymore – they’ve gone further north.
Damn, wrong response.
Hey HT, are you the blink on my Cluster Maps that keeps showing up from Saskatoon? What is the housing market like?
Not me Roof, I’m just outside Toronto, and believe me, where I am the housing market is popping, You have to have minimum $300K to invest in a small townhouse or two bedroom Condo apartment, however detached homes vary – most are 400K and above, although there are a few “fixer uppers” you can get for less.
Saskatoon is midwest – a few hundred miles above the border of Saskatchewan and Montana. It’s a lovely place to live – in the spring summer and fall, but rather difficult in winter, which used to last about 6 months, but with climate change, who knows. Their housing prices are much less than ours – you can get a nice detached for $225K and even less outside the city. Depends on what you’re looking for in terms of amenities. HOpe that answers your question. BTW, if you happen to inherit or win many millions of dollars, Vancouver, Saltspring Island, Montreal etc are really vibrant place to live, but you have to have the bucks.
Yeah, being a Left Coaster, I’ve spent a little time in Vancouver, which is where I gather a lot of Hollywood types bought in just before the Great Recession. (Think they knew something?) I hear good things about Montreal. It gets pretty cold in Toronto too doesn’t it?
I saw pictures a few years ago of golfball sized hail. A friend’s sister used to live there.
See my response above to 7;02pm under roofingbird. I have to get better about this stuff, Amazing considering I used to work on data networks. And no, I’m not senile….yet.
It really makes me question their motives for supporting Clinton against Obama.
Good point.
excellent point.
Something sure doesn’t add up. Policies must have meant nothing, at least.
I can’t count how many blogs I’ve stopped going to. Honestly, I don’t know who they are anymore and confused at the things they said then and what they now say today.
Me to and I’ve frankly stopped caring, except for people they might influence now who are not already in the groups.
Have you noticed that the commenters that used to be regular, both conservative and liberal, have disappeared?
“Something sure doesn’t add up. Policies must have meant nothing, at least”
You know I used that argument against the RF’ers regularly. I got beat about the head regularly too! 🙂
Yeah, the “normal” types are gone.
Mouse, I remember that quite well.
I’m amazed that anyone who was for healthcare for all, regulating the banksters, living-wage jobs, and secure Social Security in ’08 would turn and support Romney/Ryan — Rmoney is all healthcare for $$$, regulating the taxpayers, starving-wage jobs, and privatizing (i.e. eliminating) Social Security.
Ratfucking! I’ve read that folks actually make a living at it.
Get ready to be shocked. Chuck Todd just called out a lie.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/15/chuck-todd-smacks-down-romney-surrogate-over-false-welfare-claim/
Alec MacGillis at TNR has been pushing for that. Glad to see it happen on TV finally.
The Welfare Card And The Post-Truth Campaign
I wonder if it will last. The next big lie(s) are Medicare and the faux outrage of racism after they used “unshackled”.
Maybe these lies will be next on some TV personalities list? Soledad O’Brien did a great job with Sununu yesterday.
TNR: Who’s Raiding Medicare? Hint: It’s Not Obama.
Well they are not through trying to intimidate Soledad. Pawlenty had a go.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/15/pawlenty-suggests-that-soledad-obrien-doesnt-understand-english/
She does such a well prepared good job with those asshats. Shame the male reporters can’t do that.
I have always been partial to Soledad, since way back when…she is smart and quick and has more balls then most of those nitwits.
That last shopart pix says it all. ahhum
0bama is just a guy — he’s a crooked Chicago party guy who has pulled the former Dem party into former moderate Republican territory. So real Liberals & Dem moderates have every right to be angry. Plus the liberals & moderates who were seduced by 0bowma are pissed — there are the drones, the erosion of Constitutional rights we thought were had — the expansion of endless wars.
0bama has continued Bush’s policies. But. WE knew this was going to happen.
Give 0bowma another 4 years — he will continue down the same exact path — he will not turn into a true liberal — he has never been a liberal.
The other choice is the Mormon & his mistress of the other Patriarchal woman hating church. Neither of these fellas are true Republicans. The Republican party is as dead as the Dem party.
Anyone who has taken Political Science and/or upper level Soc classes recognises the symptoms. Neither party has made any effort to play to their true base.
Now as to the question why former Hillary supporters would switch to two cons — like Romney & Ryan — lying, two faced, Neanderthal throw backs to the middle ages? The R twins would be worse that 0bowma — the R boys would be working for Israel. Israel has a right to exist — but so does the USA. Some people are dogmatic supporters of what ever Israel does — much more extreme than the Israeli people themselves. Remember the End Timers — they want a major war in the middle east to bring back Jesus.
Many of the eye wash blogs haven’t bothered to learn about Romney — they don’t know any of the basic facts about Romney. As more of the nasty details leak out — opinions may change.
Romney is a member of a cult — a cult my grandfather escaped.
Ah good — someone mentioned the Elephant. in the living room — questioning the reason why some bloggers were Clinton supporters in the first place. If some people can now turn themselves inside out to support Romney & Ryan // both of whom are the anti-Clinton — then why were they pro Clinton 4 years ago?
Yes, the more one learns about them, the more it truly is a cult, and I agree with BB in her earlier expression, it is just as bad as Scientology. Makes one wonder, is the world going to be led by cults?
I think some of this relates to the problematic concept of the 51% campaign. If you believe that the Dems screwed you, and the Repugs are making overtures toward you, as they did in 2004, then you are more inclined listen with only one ear. Once you commit to a “new agenda” in the belief that the more important thing is to garner parity for women in politics, then other factors may be less important. It takes work to go to real sources for information, instead of just reading each other’s blogs. Not all of us have time or want to do that.
Frankly, in listening to some of the comments regarding political ads this year, I’ve been glad I was in Calif. I’ve only seen one ad where they are trying to take down my district congress critter. I hope they fail. Remember how fast and furious we all were on the attack in 2004? Truth matters, and that means there has to be some effort on someone’s part to really explain what has been good for women in the last four years.
I just found this on al Jazeera. The text is pretty blah but the pict is hauntingly familar.
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/blog/americas/nothing-new-negative-political-ads
Well, the Dems have screwed most of us over in ’08 and onward, and yes the Rs are making overtures as usual. But I don’t see that parity for women would be achieved by support for two R-wing nutcases. The only protest vote I’ll make in Nov is for Stein. I’m in a blue state with moderate to low electoral vote impact.
Agreed. Rmoney (h/t emptywheel) and Baby Blue Eyes are appalling.
My problem is that Obama is no less appalling. Different, but not less appalling. He’s committed crimes of state (torture, drones, extrajudicial killing, and that’s just the beginning), trashed rights (whistleblowers, transparency, wiretapping, rewriting the Constitution by executive order to allow bishops to decide the civil rights of their female employees, and that’s just the beginning), abandoned homeowners in favor of banks (see David Dayen’s posts, just for a start), has complained that he doesn’t get enough credit for wanting to “reform” Medicare and Social Security, and, well, it just goes on forever.
Would the Repubs be worse? Maybe. They certainly talk a lot worse, but talk and a dollar will get you a (tiny) bag of chips.
Obama reminds me of nothing so much as an abuser who brings flowers and apologizes before reaching for the baseball bat again. Everyone tells women in that situation to get the hell out of there, no matter what. But the women have usually absorbed the abuser’s message that they’ve got nowhere else to go. There was a time when I couldn’t understand that, and I’d like to go back to then.
Or, to take an analogy from another crime, it’s like some huge protection racket. One side breaks your thumbs, and the other side demands your vote so the first side won’t hurt you. Except, unlike an honest Mafioso, the second side then proceeds to beat you up anyway and expects you to be grateful it’s not as bad as what the other guy would do.
There’s a large element of participating in your own destruction in voting for either of these liars.
I guess what I’m saying is that it bothers me to see RmoneyRyan criticized (which they should be) while Obama gets a pass for all the crap he’s pulled (which he shouldn’t).
(Yeah, obviously, I’m voting Stein. That’s no secret by now. Not that it matters, where I live.)
I agree Obama is bad, to me he is the lesser of real evil…like you I am in a red state, so if I can’t vote for third party (cause Georgia may not have it on the ballot…and they do not take write ins) then you can bet your ass I won’t be voting for president Obama.
I should also say I wont be voting Romney either….but y’all know that. If I did live where it mattered, I would have to bite the bullet and vote Obama.
I want to clarify, I don’t tell anyone how to vote. I’m expressing my views. In my mind as bad as obama has been to what I think democratic policies should be, (that damn comprising), I just don’t see with 80 something days left, a third party is going to beat either of these a-holes. And I really believe the Republicans are coming to close to ruining the country. Because I live in Florida I have made decisions. that I think I can live with.
I agree with you pdgrey….I would never tell anyone how to vote. Still, with the rise of the Teabot Ideology and it’s effect in State legislatures and in the U.S. House, and the prospect of a Romney/Ryan Budget thrust upon America, I don’t see how anyone can reconcile voting for Romney/Ryan and still define themselves as “a former Dem”, “a Hillary supporter” or “a former liberal/progressive”. These 2 men are the antithesis of Hillary
And living in Florida your vote really does matter. I’m in a deep red state where Obama couldn’t beat the dog catcher, but I’m doing what I swore 3 years ago I’d never do, I’m voting for Obama.
We need a national sales tax?! Why do we need more regressive taxes, Mr. Stockman? How about just having a progressive income tax, taxing corporations, and taxing capital gains as income? Good grief!
Agree, that’s fk’ed up,BB.
I don’t want to leave this discussion but a thunderstrom has kicked me off three times and after 2 glasses of wine I’m tired of logging back on.
Good plan, if it’s that close don’t chance frying your computer or you!!!
Now the ex-Hillary supporters are cheering the decision upholding the PA voter ID law that disenfranchises 1.5 million people–mostly urban blacks!
I hate to say this, but the only explanation I can find for defense of the voter ID laws is racism. Period.
OMD – disenfranchising people is a cause for celebration? OMD (and that would be Oh My Dog – dreaded terrible horrible, immoral atheist here)
Charles M. Blow @CharlesMBlow
We have had 40+ prez elections w/o these laws, and no one questioned the “integrity of the vote.” What changed? Oh, that’s right…
And a host of other “isms” for those who may not be able easily access the places where one obtains an id.
Without those laws, all those “blah” people may vote, not to mention the brown ones.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about all those “blah” people.
Thank you, Kat. I think many of us need this!
Hi JJ. I am completely enjoying reading the comments. I’m glad to know it’s just not me.
To hell with the American Dream – you can’t touch it, and you don’t stand a chance. Even though you aren’t rich, all of us, are going to end up needing welfare. Soon as the jobs gone, the money is gone, and there goes the house, and the damn car goes, soon enough we’ll all be in need of mental health. They are hell bent on taking from the middle class and poor, hell bent on taking what we have paid into, social security and medicare, down and out. That’s where they want us, down and out.
Dak:
I guess I’m dense. I don’t understand. Are you telling me that former Hillary supporters are now actually supporting Romney? I mean, rooting for him as having good policies? As wanting him to be President? And promoting this on their blogs?
I despise Obama. He has harmed the world, the country, and the Democratic Party so horrifically it is hard to fathom. I focus on him, because I’m a Dem and, if there is any chance of reclaiming the party, it has to start with complete and utter rejection and condemnation of this fake.
But that does not mean I support Romney. Ugh! I can’t even read the posts about him. It all makes no difference to me. He is unacceptable. He is a whore. With the choice of Ryan, he has proven himself to be even stupider than I had thought, which is going pretty darn low. Who with half a brain could support that inherited-wealth loser who doesn’t seem to be able even to add and subtract?
As for Stockman, a day late and a dollar short. I remember his assholery from way back. He drove me nuts. Just because he sees through Ryan doesn’t mean he has any clue as to what needs to be done. National sales tax? Means-testing? Are you kidding me?
Does any one of these bigwigs have an ounce of empathy?
Yes. Former Hillary supporters are actively supporting Romney and Ryan. This includes a lot of people that you know. They think Romney is a moderate and every one is lying about Ryan. They are actively making the case to elect them on their blogs.
Wow! That is absolutely shocking. I mean, even I can understand how Dems who really don’t like Obama might cede to the lesser-of-two-evils argument, because the selection of Ryan is so dreadful. I can’t vote for Obama myself, but I can see how others who are disaffected may feel they have no choice. Romney is a nothing (a nothing I could never vote for), but Ryan is dangerous. To me they’re both freaks, plastic, empty-headed, unthinking, self-aggrandizing freaks. We are so effed.
It’s a shock to me. I think you can see from the comments on this thread that others have left so-called “Hillary Supporter” sites for the same reason. I’m even seeing a few go around trying to convince folks that voting for Romney/Ryan now will make it easier for Hillary in 2016. I think that’s just plain delusional.
😯
That makes zero sense. Unless maybe they believed the drivel about her being a neocon? Although even if you want a neocon, Obama’s a closer fit than R&R.
Ryan is a neo-con from the get go. Kristol and that gang love that prick. You really need to get out more, away from that nuclear plant maybe. Romney is in the pocket of Netanyahu so I think you’re wrong on both counts.
Stockman’s national sales tax suggestion is awful. But, even he recognizes that we need to bring back Glass Stegal and he recognizes Ryan is a sham on every level.
Well, I’ll be the lone “dumb” wolf here and explain my feelings even though I know you won’t accept them but perhaps you can respect them.
I supported HRC…as a matter of fact, all my friends and family did as well – except for one, who coincidentally is married to a black man but I’m sure that had nothing to do with it. I come from a long line of democrats and us crazy birds do tend to flock together. The reason I supported Hillary was her reputation as a hard worker in the Senate, her strenth and intelligence, and hey, it was a twofer – we got Bill with the deal. I honestly did not know much about Obama until 2007, but it really didn’t take long to find out everything I needed to know…the good, the bad and oh the ugly. Did you realize he’s been listed on Judicial Watch as one of the top 10 most corrupt politicians since 2006? OK, he was only given a dishonorable mention that first year, but still.
After he was given the nomination and I had read all the fraud that went on (after that primary, who could possibly be against voter ID) and being called racist on just about every blog I dared show my type, I did some soul searching and came to the following conclusion(s).
There is no true democrat or republican party anymore…they have both been co-opted and corrupted. I now vote for an individual – no one gets any party loyalty from me.
I started reading articles, blogs and comments from lots of people – not just liberal or democrat…while I still find there’s a whole lot of crazy out there, I am also surprised to see that I agree with some of these other folks from time to time. And even if I don’t agree, I like to know what other people are thinking and why.
I’ve realized that I don’t agree with any party platform…there is no one party (and I’m sure no one person) who completely represents me on either social or economic issues
Bottom line, do I like my choices this year? Not at all. Obama has, however, proven himself to be completely ineffective but at the same time alarmingly dangerous…what he has done with his executive orders, recess appointments and his drones are appalling. He isn’t liberal…he’s Bush on steroids.
Do I think Romney is likely to be less dangerous? I have no clue, but I feel he at least has some real world experience in business and my family could sure use some help with that. I believe business owners have lost confidence in Obama as well as more and more consumers. My husband’s current job (1 of 3) involves him talking to a lot of small/medium business owners. He says the majority are just barely in business.
While I don’t believe I will ever agree with Republicans socially, I don’t think it matters much if I end up homeless…don’t think I’ll much care what they believe in with regards to gay marriage, abortion, women’s rights, etc.
I absolutely detest the idea of voting republican, but a 3rd party candidate just isn’t there either and Obama has simply got to go.
I hope I posted late enough that you all have eaten and digested your lunch so nothing sneaks back up on you. And please, I really don’t expect or even encourage a response…I’m a pretty sane individual even if you don’t agree and I guess that’s my main point. There are a lot of sane people out here who will vote for Romney, even if we have to go home and get drunk afterwards.
“There are a lot of sane people out here who will vote for Romney, even if we have to go home and get drunk afterwards.”
I don’t know you DM, but I do think your vote is between you and your conscience, still the implication in your comment “there are a lot of sane people out here who will vote for Romney” implies that those who do not aren’t sane. Am I misunderstanding?
“even if we have to go home and get drunk afterwards.”
From my perspective, if you’re “sane”, voting for Romney would require getting drunk before you cast your vote. Just saying
You are misunderstanding…the only thing I was implying with that remark was that most of you would consider me insane if I vote for Romney. Hey, maybe by the time this is all over I will be in the looney bin…I’ve had just about all I can take with no money, breast cancer, and trying to keep my daughter in college.
That’s a terrible circumstance and I know many people who are suffering right now. I’m just not one of those who believes Romney will do anything but make the circumstance of a serious illness and affording treatment for that illness or affording education anything but much worse.
I wish you well.
Romney is not a businessman. He is a pirate. Even Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich recognized that. The reason the economy is bad is because the republicans have blocked everything that would remotely help to make it better and they’ve even admitted as much. If you consider voting for the Dubya policies of pillaging the Treasury for the very rich and starting unnecessary wars good policy then you are the one that has to live with the result. Every time you come here it is with some fox meme you’ve grasped onto to hang on to your view. Romney and Ryan are the antithesis to everything the Clinton’s stood for … just embrace the fact you are swallowing lies to maintain whatever it is you feel about Obama. We have to tank every right wing republican now if we ever want a viable democracy and economy. A grudge is a selfish luxury. We don’t censor you here. We sympathize with your plight because many of us our in very bad situations too. But, I’ve done my homework and there is no way in good conscious I could ever vote for those two. Again, you do what you have to do. No one is questioning any one’s sanity or sincerity. It’s just I would say that all of us completely disagree with you. I think Romney would be far far far far far worse than an Obama second term. This is especially true if we don’t get rid of what every tea party idiots are around. I’m a registered independent and I used to be a republican for about 20 years. Believe me, I wouldn’t vote for a republican any more. I’m not going to embrace the end of everything I hold dear and kick my kid’s future into the shitter.
That says it all right there. Even if all you read was this blog, you would know the answer to that by now. If you’ve read this blog and have discounted all the evidence we have presented, then why are you here?
I certainly don’t consider you insane. Of course many sane people will vote for Romney. Some are low-formation voters, and a small percentage are people who can’t let go of their anger at Obama being President.
The ones who are in the top 5% will be voting for their own financial self-interest, short term. Long term they are voting for crumbling infrastructure, lower wages for all and thus fewer consumers, more crime and less law enforcement. Those who are now middle class or working class are voting for a plutocracy in which most of us will be indentured servants.
And BTW, Judicial Watch is a far right wing organization.
“The ones who are in the top 5% will be voting for their own financial self-interest, short term.”
If she doesn’t believe the evidence of R&R presented here, there’s a congressional record chocked full of Paul Ryan’s devotion to destroying SS/Medicare/Medicaid and Education funding. It doesn’t take much work to see the truth of Ryan or Romney
Below is the quote from BB I meant to copy & paste. Sorry for the brain hiccup!!!
“Even if all you read was this blog, you would know the answer to that by now.”
dm, I believe that voters should decide for themselves whom to vote for. I encourage voters to take their right to vote as a personal responsibilty and a duty as a citizen of this democracy. They should research the candidates’ backgrounds and records before voting.
In ’08, I voted for a presidential candidate whom I immensely disliked, but his platform was closer to mine. Because of the vastly differing presidential candidates’ opinions in 2012 about the direction each would take this country, my previous decision that I would not vote at the top of the ticket is softening.
I tolerate a relative who voted 5 times for Jesse Helms and was sad
when he died. I don’t agree with her or with much of what you’ve written, but I believe you have a right to your comments. I would suggest that you decide what you believe on the issues and vote for the candidate who comes closer to supporting them.
There’s a contradiction in what I wrote in my former comment about voter duty and my previous decision not to vote for president in ’12. Holding off had much to do with the long burn I experienced after the infamous ’08 primary. Over the summer, I’ve realized that I had to get back in the game and vote.