The Meme That Just Won’t Die: Hillary as VP
Posted: May 23, 2012 Filed under: U.S. Politics | Tags: Barack Obama, gender gap, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Michael Tomasky, Mitt Romney, Secretary of State, Vice President 50 Comments
Here we go again. Today Michael Tomasky discusses the possibility that Hillary could switch jobs with Joe Biden. Tomasky was reacting to a snarky piece in the Washington Times, so take it with a large grain of salt. Tomasky writes:
Clinton’s positive numbers are off the charts. Biden’s are so-so—both approval and disapproval sit in the 40s. Biden’s putative asset, that he helps a bit with white working-class and Catholic voters, is even truer of Clinton, the famous drinker of shots in those proletarian Pennsylvania bars. And women—forget about it. An Obama-Clinton ticket would pulverize any Romney ticket on the distaff side (is that insulting? I’m just trying to avoid repeating the word “women” too much). It wouldn’t matter if he put Carrie Underwood on his ticket.
I know, I know. It’s silly. I can right now picture the friends reading this who will write me to say, “Mike, that’s silly.” It probably is. But here are a few points for your consideration that aren’t silly at all.
Actually, I don’t see anything silly about the idea, but then I’m “on the distaff side.” Tomasky notes that in the recent NYT-CBS poll, Romney is actually leading among women. Is it really possible that Romney has narrowed the gender gap. If so, Obama would be in big trouble.
In other words, it may well be that Romney could close the gender gap. And if he could close it to 5 points, it will be an extremely close election.
Now bring in Hillary. Forget about it. The most consistently admired woman in America over the last 20 years? The gender gap would be 20 points. And the Obama and Clinton machines fused like that—it’s like Secretariat and Zenyatta breeding. And the signal sent to Democrats and women across the country that the whole thing is being teed up for her in 2016. This would be a blowout.
And Biden, you ask? Well, the gay-marriage thing might finally have been the straw that made Obama think it’s not so great having Joe around. But don’t feel bad for him. He benefits from the fact that the White House would have to do this smoothly, which means Biden can’t possibly just be hung out to dry. So he’s going to be landing on a $300 goose-down pillow. He gets to be secretary of state—the job he’s dreamed of for years anyway!
It makes a lot of sense, but it probably won’t happen–not because it’s a “silly” idea, but because Obama doesn’t have the guts to do it. If he did, it would be a real “game changer.” Suddenly this deadly dull election season would become very exciting. And Hillary would be teed up to run in 2016.
What do you think?
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If this happened, I’d be a very happy camper, although I wouldn’t feel all that confident about Biden as SOS. But if he messes up, it he could be dealt with down the road. Just buy him off for now by giving him the job.
In dreams this would be grand…but I don’t think she is going to do it.
I doubt if she’ll be asked.
@ BB 10:32, Ain’t that the truth!
It’s the best Idea I’ve ever heard but I doubt if she would do it. Sadly, we’re the losers for it.
I’ll bet she would do it if it was the only way for Obama to get re-elected.
Ooooh! An appeal to Hillary’s Dem loyalty to help Obacktrack get re-elected and save us from Romney and the return to the Dark Ages.
Then Obama can gracefully resign on January 1, 2013 for something-or-other and let her run the country. Bet she would not pick Biden for SoS.
I think she would. She’s a party loyalist, plus the job can be what you make of it. And, she cares about breaking the gender barrier and we’ll all be dead 10,000 years before that happens otherwise.
BB, Seriously: I hope you guys are right and Obama has the stones to ask her it it’s needed. Well, or if it’s not needed to.
I like the idea, too. It would get me excited about the election. And Hillary, along with Bill, could do a lot to help down-ticket Democrats across the country. I can see the Clintons campaigning very effectively for Joe Donnelly in his Indiana Senate bid against Tea Party nutjob Dick Mourdock. Obama couldn’t care less about the down-ticket races. He’s shown that in the past.
Biden would be okay as SOS. He has plenty of foreign policy creds.
Plus, becoming the VP candidate would be a strong signal that Hillary is planning to run in 2016. I don’t know about all of you but I need something positive like that to hold on to these days.
I couldn’t agree more, Beata. This has been a very depressing election year so far.
Me too. And keep in mind that even Bill has talked about Hillary possibly running in 2016.
If Hillary doesn’t want to run maybe someone could send her a copy of this platform and remind her what the country is up against. Genuinely scary wingnuts from hell!
What It Means to Be a Republican in Lubbock (A Review of the Local GOP Platform)!
Oh, Ralph, I’m afraid now we’re getting our hopes up for Hillary and it won’t happen. 😦
I’m not getting my hopes up but it’s on my wish list for sure!
This Gallup poll out today shows 50% of Americans pro-life and only 41% pro-choice and will generate a lot of verbage in the news. It’s also why I consider Gallup to now be a useless pollster.
The dubious results of Gallup’s abortion poll
But the buzzwords matter to the useless media.
Again — I know from my research (MA degree) that the presence or absence of a male while a women is polled can make her change her choices to please the male or to hide her true feelings. Also I’ve deliberately tested this hypothesis over the years — being a trained facilitator makes steering conversations so easy. Anyway many wives will tale one side of an argument or discussion while husband is in room and when the men aren’t there the real opinions emerge.
The most recent test was in Arizona — a group of women and there was no real political discussion. However — opinions can be expressed without any politics. There were several meetings of the group over a two month period. A spouse showed up for two of the meetings — he did the typical male blah blah — talked non stop about himself — the typical white male Arizona crap. There was a significant difference in behavior of the group. Male in the group — male rules of talking. Only women — more few flowing discussions on a wide variety of topics. I did no guiding of the discussion — because I wanted to learn the group dynamics.
Anyway I’d say that Gallup results are BS — unless the pollster can control for males influencing wives etc. and the results are for phone interviews — no way does the publicly released poll have any real meaning. Except that whoever is paying for this poll knows that male presence can skew the results.
Oh right women want to go back to the 19th century — Not.
Seems like the women’s groups need to start educating everyone about what will happen if the GOP white males get all their wishes fulfilled. Lots of dead mothers and babies — oh but the white guy does get to marry again, get the little woman pregnant and let her die — rinse repeat.Of course it would be a sin to ever deny the guy. Sort of like serial fundamentalist Mormons.
There are consequences of non action — just letting the guys have their way — with making the laws. And there are the men with boobs who enable the old white guys.
This whole election is about hating women.
And no I still will never vote for 0bama — thankfully my vote does not count in this state. So I can be true to my core values and not vote for a lying con man who has and who will again throw women under the bus — as well as throw Medicare and SS aged folk under the bus. 0bama will beat up all his supporters after the election — just like he did the last time.
This is going to be the nastiest election ever. Mormons play dirty — lie, cheat steal — as long as the means justify the end — then the ruling Mormons are fine with whatever Romney does. But then 0bama plays very dirty as well — he has a long history of dirty tricks.
I agree with your views on the dynamics of women’s conversations when men are around. But how can you sit out this or any election? In any election the results could surprise you and you just may be the one who puts it over the wall. Or stops a dictator from coming to power. And I really believe if we let the republicans in this time or in 2016, we will be setting the foundation for a dictatorship in the near future. Look how they are acting when dems have the WH and the Senate!! What would they do if they got the WH or a few seats in the senate????
Janey, I agree. I’m no fan of Obama, but I’m really worried about what will happen if he loses to Romney. Just the Supreme Court alone is reason not to sit out this election. Of course if you live in a state in which Romney has no chance like I do, you could get away with it. But I’ve pretty much decided to vote for Obama just in case.
I will say this…I am in a state that will go for Romney (Georgia) and I cannot vote third party or write it in, because it is not allowed. So for me, sitting out the election is an option. If I was in another state where it matters, then I would have to go with the lesser of big ass evil.
I will vote third party. My state will go 0bowma no matter how I vote and I simply cannot vote for a Chicago thug who should be in jail along with his best buddies.
So I have the luxury of owning my own vote.
I will not and cannot vote for 0bowma — and his wife is also a crook so I can’t even reason with myself and say — hey 0bowma is a crook but his wife is at least working for and listening to the people. Plus she is a racist.
In the end — I believe that 0bowma will follow the corporate line — and he will be worse after the election — there will be no checks on him no more elections. His progress toward some form of totalitarianism will open the doors to someone much worse than he is. Romney is worse — but the end result — either Romney or 0bowma will be the same. Both men are owned by the military Industrial complex — both men are thieves with no core values. Both have the same end game — opening up American to the full take over by the “multinational” corporations and by Wall Street.
Pollution will be worse — no matter which guy wins. The pipeline project will go through. Fracking will continue — no matter which guy wins. Coal with be exported to the world through the Seattle seaports — no matter which guy wins.
0bowma signed the Stupak executive order — and it will get worse for women — much much worse — depending on which state women live in. No matter which guy wins. Both guys will try to return their women problem to the states. Which means a whole lot of women will die. That is a frightening thought — women will die because neither guy much cares.
0bowma may be a bit better right now on a few women’s issues — but after the election he will cave big time. He will bow down to the Catholic priests. He will bow down to the religious right.
I won’t vote for 0bowma because I don’t have to. I’ve held my nose and voted for a whole lot of dems who are merely moderate Republicans — but I will not do that anymore. There are far too many Stupaks in the dem party.
A lot depends on how it’s phrased. The highest numbers will always be for agreement to privacy between an individual and her/his healthcare provider.
I tend to refer to the “pro-life” thugs as “pro-forced-labor.”
That poll also seems to clash with the poll that showed that a huge majority of Americans supports gay marriage.
Speaking of that BB, did you see this: Colin Powell endorses gay marriage – Tim Mak – POLITICO.com
Never. Never. Never. This is a schlock administration, incompetents and Wall Street whores all of them, and she would have less power than when she was First Lady. Women need to make it clear they will not vote for any Democratic ticket that has not stood up for women’s rights. Not now. Not ever. That starts with His Majesty, that jackass who never heard of a uterus he didn’t want to hand over to the right wingers to oversee.
We women may not have the money that the Hollywood gays have (which is how they got Obama to “evolve,” even without his really doing a goddam tangible thing), but we have the votes. And I will never vote for Obama, he who has acquiesced so willingly in squashing a woman’s autonomy.
If the Dems are so worried (as they should be), then put Hillary at the top. It’s that simple. She’d win in a cake walk. As for 2016, please. As far as I’m concerned, that’s nothing more than the party machine’s propaganda (you know, Rahm and his henchmen), trying to pat us on our pretty little heads and telling us soothingly to wait just a little longer. Let the boys go first, unqualified, lying sacks of shit though they may be. Then it’ll be your turn, honey, we promise.
What you said!
HONK!!
Hillary 2012
My feelings exactly. Ditch Obama and let Hillary run for President. They screwed her out of it last time and we’ve suffered ever since.
Tru Dat Deborah!
Take that 2008 grudge and shove it! Oh, was that rude? Well fuck it.
No — 0bama is just a rotten non leader. He caves –basically what mjames says above.
0bowma never had any original ideas in 2008 and he is still “learning”. He can’t work with congress — his budget was rejected so completely by both parties.
0bowma still has no fresh ideas — he is NOT a leader — and neither is Romney. Which tell me that someone or some group is pulling the reigns. The horses are out in front — but the leadership is from behind somewhere.
Sigh. It’ll be a great day for everyone when journalists are no longer afraid to write about women and women’s issues.
I wish Hillary was a possibility, but I just don’t see it. First, Hillary has said repeatedly that she is tired and will not consider a run in 2016. If Obama is re-elected, I expect her to step down as SOS in early 2013. I think she will take a long break from politics at that point and perhaps, during that rest, she will reassess the POTUS 2016 run, but I’m not holding my breath.
Couldn’t agree with you more Mouse. She has repeatedly said (and she looks) that she is tired from 20 years of being in high level intense decision making roles. If ANYONE deserves a break, its her. Our best hope of seeing her in Washington will be in 2016 IF she decides to (which she may seeing as the country will be in soup by that time).
Hillary 2012
But that’s what’s great about VP. She can kind of make it whatever she wants it to be. She can start out by taking it easier and resting up, and then when she’s ready….
Boomer, I concur completely with your sentiments.
If Obama keeps Biden, Obama may lose. If he replaces him with Hillary, probably Romney would lose. Not that Biden would cause Obama to lose, but Hillary could prevent him from losing.
Would Michelle and Valerie stand for the idea???
Would Obama’s own narcissism allow him to make the wise move?
I also saw a suggestion that Biden could be dropped into the supreme court.
Oh god, I reject that with every fiber of my being. I understand that “gravitas” isn’t exactly something we can associate with the Supreme Court, but surely we can do better than Jo Jo the Talking Donkey. If that buffoon gets to put both VP and Supreme Court Justice on his resume, what a stunning indictment of our way of life. 😉
Seriously, I believe you are right.
Me too. Biden on the SCOTUS would be a disaster!
Personally, I’d love to see Hillary on the Court. Her vs Thomas & Scalia – warms the cockles of my heart.
@connie 8:17pm
Yeah, I would like to see her there too.
I’m with you there too seriously…
“Personally, I’d love to see Hillary on the Court. Her vs Thomas & Scalia – warms the cockles of my heart.”
Now that’s something I’d pay to see. With her experience as a private Attorney, a first lady in AR, the First Lady of the U.S., Senator from NY, Presidential Candidate and SOS of the US for 4 years, I can’t think of a single person who would bring more robust professional and life experiences to the SCOTUS.
And I’d love nothing better than to see her on the bench with Scalia, but more importantly I’d like to see her sitting next to the clown, Clarence Thomas, a guy who hasn’t spoken from the bench, except to read an opinion, in 6 years. I don’t understand how a SC Justice comes to a decison without offering questions during court arguments.
“also saw a suggestion that Biden could be dropped into the supreme court.”
Considering Biden’s time on the Armed Services Committee, I can see him taking over Secretary of Defense. Panetta has done a good job, but looks as tired as Hillary. Those jobs, particularly SOS. are more demanding than any other cabinet jobs. He’s 73 and if Obama is re-elected Panetta is likely to step-down early in 2013.
I CAN SEE RETIREMENT FOR JOE BLOOPER BIDEN!
Honestly, the voters have spoken on Biden time and time agains…..NOOOOO BIDEN! How clearer can they say it?
If anyone has real knowledge and real experience………….it would be Ms. Hillary
As Secretary of State, Hillary answers to Obama but she has a sphere of real power.
As Vice President, she’d have none. What a tragic waste of talent and character.
I believe it was John Nance Garner who said that the vice presidency wasn’t worth a warm bucket of piss.
Obama said Joe BLOOPER Biden was his best decision…so I expect that he will stay with JOE FOOT IN MOUTH Biden.