Saturday Morning Open Thread


Good Morning!!

I’m feeling even worse this morning than I did yesterday. I woke up in fear, my heart pounding. I’ve been reading a lot this morning, but I’m not ready to do a real post. I just can’t.  I hope you guys can fill in for me a bit for now. I’ll try my best to write something later today. I can’t guarantee anything though.

I’m not giving up, but I’m going through an emotional reaction that could take some time. I’ve said before that it feels like a death in the family. It’s similar to how I felt when my father died, but in some ways it’s worse. My dad lived a long and productive life. His time came and he went quickly. This could mean the death of democracy, the death of everything we hold dear, everything that made the U.S. a place of hope, despite its many serious flaws.

I wish all of you the best today. I love you all and care about you. I’ll definitely be back later, but right now I need to take care of myself as best I can.


He tells her that the Earth is flat—
He knows the facts, and that is that.
In altercations fierce and long
She tries her best to prove him wrong.
But he has learned to argue well.
He calls her arguments unsound
And often asks her not to yell.
She cannot win. He stands his ground.

The planet goes on being round.


This is an open thread.


42 Comments on “Saturday Morning Open Thread”

  1. joanelle says:

    …and we love you, BB. Feel our arms holding you tight? Don’t let the bastards get you down. It’s not over, Homeland Security and DOJ are indeed working on the anomalies that have been identified, and the jerk is already backing down on his promises. Clearly some of his backers won’t like that.
    The world is closing in on the Donald, Trump tower has taken on the likes of a fortress to protect him and his family. I certainly wouldn’t want to be part of that cabal at this time – win or lose.
    He has finagled ‘winning’ in many situations over his lifetime. This time I believe he went too far and it will come back to not only bite him but devour all that he loves and owns.

    • Delphyne49 says:

      I agree with your observation, Joanelle – he did go too far and really hasn’t grasped the amount of people in our country and around the World who will push back harder than he expected or is prepared for.

      We’ll all do what we can, including taking necessary time off from “the news.” Take good care of yourself, BB – you have lots and lots of support and love from all of us here!! xoxo ❤

  2. Sweet Sue says:

    That poem is fabulous.
    Take care of yourself, BB..
    I don’t have advice because I’m waking up in the middle of the night, engulfed in a sense of dread.
    The only thing that comes to mind is that hoary line from disaster movies “Save Yourselves!”

  3. I find it interesting that you described the feeling as being like a death in the family. I remember saying to my best friend that first morning that it was the feeling when you end a relationship with someone you really cared for and didn’t want to lose.

    Still, I think I’ve mostly pulled myself out of that dump. I’ve stopped wallowing I think. Now I’m just trying to plan for the future.

  4. janicen says:

    Wow. That’s a powerful poem. I had a comment but I need a few minutes after reading that. Wow.

  5. contrask says:

    BB – you are a jewel. I appreciate your thoughtful posts and totally understand your emotional distress. I was able to cry some today, but I go back into anger and grief again. This post helped me, it expresses some of my grief. Maybe it will help someone else

  6. Ron4Hills says:

    I am totally in the dark about all that is happening. You guys provide all the news I am getting. My main coping mechanism has been, if I don’t the Bastard-Elect then he doesn’t exist.

  7. dakinikat says:

    I gigged this morning at a farmer’s market downtown. It’s hard to believe people can go about their business normally. I just can’t right now. There were so many little bitty kids. WTF kind of world are they going to grow up in?

    On the upside, I have a nice loaf of fresh baked bread.

    • dakinikat says:

      Coach Popovich:

      “Right now I’m just trying to formulate thoughts. It’s too early. I’m just sick to my stomach. Not basically because the Republicans won or anything, but the disgusting tenor and tone and all of the comments that have been xenophobic, homophobic, racist, misogynistic.

      “I live in that country where half of the people ignored all of that to elect someone. That’s the scariest part of the whole thing to me. It’s got nothing to do with the environment and Obamacare, and all of the other stuff. We live in a country that ignored all of those values that we would hold our kids accountable for. They’d be grounded for years if they acted and said the things that have been said in that campaign by Donald Trump.

      “I look at the Evangelicals and I wonder, those values don’t mean anything to them? All of those values to me are more important than anybody’s skill in business or anything else because it tells who we are, and how we want to live, and what kind of people we are. That’s why I have great respect for people like Lindsey Graham and John McCain, John Kasich, who I disagree with on a lot of political things, but they had enough fiber and respect for humanity and tolerance for all groups to say what they said about the man.

      “That’s what worries me. I get it, of course we want to be successful, we’re all going to say that. Everybody wants to be successful, it’s our country, we don’t want it to go down the drain. But any reasonable person would come to that conclusion, but it does not take away the fact that he used that fear mongering, and all of the comments, from day one, the race bating with trying to make Barack Obama, our first black president, illegitimate. It leaves me wondering where I’ve been living, and with whom I’m living.

      “The fact that people can just gloss that over, start talking about the transition team, and we’re all going to be kumbaya now and try to make the country good without talking about any of those things. And now we see that he’s already backing off of immigration and Obamacare and other things, so was it a big fake, which makes you feel it’s even more disgusting and cynical that somebody would use that to get the base that fired up. To get elected. And what gets lost in the process are African Americans, and Hispanics, and women, and the gay population, not to mention the eighth grade developmental stage exhibited by him when he made fun of the handicapped person. I mean, come on. That’s what a seventh grade, eighth grade bully does. And he was elected president of the United States. We would have scolded our kids. We would have had discussions until we were blue in the face trying to get them to understand these things. He is in charge of our country. That’s disgusting.”

      A reporter then interrupted him.

      “I’m not done,” Popovich said. “One could go on and on, we didn’t make this stuff up. He’s angry at the media because they reported what he said and how he acted. That’s ironic to me. It makes no sense. So that’s my real fear, and that’s what gives me so much pause and makes me feel so badly that the country is willing to be that intolerant and not understand the empathy that’s necessary to understand other group’s situations. I’m a rich white guy, and I’m sick to my stomach thinking about it. I can’t imagine being a Muslim right now, or a woman, or an African American, a Hispanic, a handicapped person. How disenfranchised they might feel. And for anyone in those groups that voted for him, it’s just beyond my comprehension how they ignore all of that. My final conclusion is, my big fear is — we are Rome.”

      • Enheduanna says:

        I would argue it was closer to 75% who ignored his disgusting tenor – 49% who did not vote and 25% who voted for him. Apparently there were also an awful lot of people who voted down ticket and left the top blank. Throw them in too.

      • joanelle says:

        I believe that Trump’s behavior/language is viewed by many as giving permission for the same. However I think Popovich is painting America with a pretty broad brush. There are thousand of us who are sick to our stomachs that this ignorant, ranting, disgusting individual could possibly soon be sitting at the helm.
        But we are not sitting still for it, we are pressing the powers that be to research, to uncover what really went wrong and how bad it is. If those of us wanting answers are right about a ‘rigged election’ as he was telling us for the last six months, then this is far more than just our election – this is beyond our borders and if it can happen to us, it can happen to other countries as well.
        We are not a bad people, but we are a people in pain because of elected officials who take care of themselves and have forgotten those who put them there. Right now we are a stunned people because we all know that something is VERY wrong, even those who are voted for him, and we will find out how and what turned our election on it’s head.

  8. MsMass says:

    Today, I’m trying to see this as a part of history-the big picture of time. Many times there have been terrible leaders, horrible rulers, devastating wars and conflicts. What do people do?
    Sometimes with fighting, sometimes with resistance, sometimes it is just bloodless opposition.
    (Sometimes it is running away- ah Canada!) I ask myself- what would Thomas Jefferson do? Or Ben Franklin? The mighty pen in those days, and maneuvering in the halls of power.
    Think of the plots and plans behind the person on the throne, the long game that so many have played over time.
    OK, too ancient. How about the women suffragettes who fought over many years to get the vote.
    They faced defeat after defeat. Or the civil rights struggle, my god think about slavery. Years and years of struggle and pain.
    Believe me, I’m not trying to minimize the damage here- it feels like a knife to my gut. I thought we were better than this, I thought America was smarter than this. I was wrong. Still,
    I hope I can get up each morning and continue the opposition to those bastards. And if not, I remember- this too shall pass-as it always does.
    Believe me, I feel the pain.

  9. Sara says:

    Perhaps the electoral college votes for Hillary. Now that would be the ultimate new precedent
    for this election. Just sayin.

    • Enheduanna says:

      Sorry I have to disagree. It would be a disaster and just the thing to incite the alt-righters to violence. It’s very sad that. In a way we are already living in an authoritarian nightmare.

  10. William says:

    I can’t link, but there is a a very interesting piece at the WAPO entitled, “Trump and the end of history.” It is actually rather intellectual, and discusses the arc of the last 100 years, and how strangely enough, it may be that some people, mostly white males, got bored with things being pretty good compared to the frightening past, and so wanted to break it down, for fun, or to reiieve some kind of boredom. That makes some intuitive sense; not them doing it, but what is behind it. Moody’s election prediction, which is always based on economic date and a few other things, and has always been right, had Hillary at 332 votes. Low inflation, low gas prices, a rising economy, a president with high favorables, etc. The entire result makes no sense–except fot the hacking and the voter suppression, operation Crosscheck, very evil. This is the story that has to be told, over and over. And Hillary is going to win by 2-3 million votes; lose three key states by 100,0i00 where votes were certainly suppressed, and very possibly hacked. And that accounts for the anomalous result.

    BB,, and Kat, I well understand how you feel. I feel much the same way. I cannot believe that some people just blithely go about their day. I think that those of us here understand the true impiications of this, and thus feel it more powerfully. It is not something that is every going to go away for me. And it is a very frightening prospect. A major climate change denier head of EPA. Contacts made with neo-Nazi European groups. Racists and fascists everywhere in the administration positions. Like a nightmare vision of reality.

  11. janicen says:

    The next time I read some pundit or journalist say that the WWC is going to regret supporting Trump because he won’t deliver on the wall or repealing the ACA or stopping companies from moving jobs overseas my head will explode. I just want to scream, “They don’t give a shit about any of that!” All they care about is that we will have neither a black family nor a woman in the White House. That’s why they supported Trump. Nothing else mattered.

    • NW Luna says:

      WTF? THere’s more and more of this shit every day. Soft-bellied centipedes of hate acting out their fantasies.

  12. Enheduanna says:

    I am taking NW Luna’s suggestion from previous thread and mailing a card to Hillary:

    Hillary Rodham Clinton
    Post Office Box 5256
    New York, NY 10185-5256

    I found a gorgeous WWII-era card in my vintage collection. This is the sentiment:

    For many, many years to come
    May Birthdays bring your way
    The things that keep the heart in tune,
    The joys of every day –

    And may the Flag we love so well
    The dear Red, White and Blue,
    Bring added cheer through every year –
    God Bless Our Flag — and You!

    I wish you could see it – fabulous vintage graphic glitter card. Her birthday was last month but I figured it would still be appropriate.

    Thank you all for being here and forgive my babbling – you are a great source of strength to me.

  13. janicen says:

    You know what I find really nauseating? The calls for consolation and “let’s give him a chance” from Trump supporters. I had more respect for them when they owned their racism and sexism but now I’m seeing on FB that so many of them are denying the racism and sexism in the campaign altogether and taking the stance that he just said those things during the campaign. Jeebus fucking christ on a cracker! But they could not trust Hillary. I’m done. I’m going to watch television and not think about this stuff anymore this weekend. I can’t take the stress.

    • palhart says:

      I’ve become entrenched. He hasn’t done anything in his life, but more importantly in the past 18 months of this campaign for me to have one redeeming trait of his to admire. I do not respect him nor will I ever support him. He is not my president. I will fight for American beliefs, our heroes, our Constitution, civil citizens, but not this unprincipled, greedy, narcissistic, hateful, childish trickster/buffoon.

    • NW Luna says:

      Screw the make-nice shit. They are all racist women-hater, even the women, and their leader is the chief bully on steroids.

  14. palhart says:

    Let’s look at Trump’s strategy (please feel free to add items that I may forget). He attacked the other than: white, male, Christian, non-handicapped, working class, legal citizen, the President, and his opponent (brutally). He burst on the scene and said in a crude, nasty, relentless 8th grade boy’s lingo what many Americans have wanted to say. He became their staunch hero. He even won 52% of the women’s vote. I’ve heard that his supporters took him seriously, but not literally, (the media did the opposite). J.B.Vance, “Hillbilly Elegy”, wrote how the working class community that he grew up in felt deeply resentful and left behind by Washington. Trump had his coalition.

    I was taken with what Rev. Barber said that blacks have lived the struggle for centuries and know how to mobilize for the long game (my paraphrase.) I do hope dissenters keep the pressure on Trump.

    I can’t predict his strategy as President, but bullying, forcing, banning, and isolating won’t work. We will not answer to an autocrat in this democracy.

    • babama says:

      Important to note that the 52% number is White women. Hillary did get a majority of women’s votes, but not a majority from white women. 43%. We white women have work to do.

      • NW Luna says:

        I cannot understand how any woman would vote for her oppressor. I may stay forever in my blue Left Coast states without venturing out.

        Even my mother, who in her later years fell victim to Fox news and listened to rightwing radio talk shows, recoiled and changed her mind about Newt Gingrich when I told her about his serial wives and divorcing them under cruel circumstances. (Although being married to him sounds cruel enough.)

  15. Riverbird says:

    I still can’t read newspapers or listen to NPR. I’m reading mysteries and watching TV, alternating between episodes of The Crown and Supernatural.

    I’m letting the results sink in. I haven’t left my house since I got back from my sister’s Wednesday morning. I hope to overcome my lethargy and go out for breakfast tomorrow morning.

    Love to you all, especially bostonboomer.

    • janicen says:

      Thank you for reminding me Riverbird. I swore I would do that and here I am, peeking at this and that and getting myself riled up again. Have a good night, all. I’m going to stop thinking about this again.

    • dakinikat says:

      I’m binging on fresh baked bread, wine and The Magicians today. Just cannot adult.

  16. vger says:

    Am watching the tally for the popular vote. It looks like she’s headed for a record number of votes for a candidate after Obama and they are still counting. As the man said, the system is rigged.

  17. I am utterly demoralized and gutted. I do not want to think about “the next woman.” What next woman?!

    This woman, dammit. This woman.

    100 years of progress slipped away in 10 minutes. So many felt it.

    Hate crimes through the wazoo and people traumatized and reeling.

    It’s all so sad.

    • NW Luna says:

      This woman, dammit. This woman.

      We had a chance to pick a president who would be another FDR, and someone who would, I’m sure, be even better than FDR. And the country picked an orangutang instead.

      Tearing up again. I have waves of heartbreak — yes, a death in the family feeling — and then numbness, then rage, then bleak automaton activity, anger, heartbreak, and around and around again.

      Took a long hike today and the leafless trees and dying grasses spoke to my heart. A few late apples somehow still hanging on old trees, still sweet though soft. I climbed up a learning trunk and picked some of the apples to take back. Yes, damn it, at my age I am still going to climb trees!

      Hillary won the popular vote, Hillary won the popular vote, more votes than Trump, suck on that you orangutangs. We will resist and monkeywrench you every chance we get. The world is round.

      Sometimes I go low too. Needs must.

  18. native11 says:

    I haven’t posted here much but I have been following all of you for years. Thank you for your passion and common sense. I probably won’t post much but I felt I had to contribute even if it is in a small way. Please don’t give up.

    “And yet their wills did not yield, and they struggled on.”
    ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King.

    It is no secret that I supported and still support Hillary Rodham Clinton . I have supported her through thick and thin, through success and defeat. I have studied her history and her friendships. The reason I support her is probably not what you think. It is not for her tenacity, which she has in spades. It is not for her competence though she is the most competent person. It is not for her stellar qualifications. It is not because she is a woman though that is enough for me when combined with her other virtues.

    I support Hillary Clinton because it is my firm belief that she is guided by one single principle:
    That is, that at the end of the day, to have made at least one persons life a little better. In making that persons life a little better she makes everyones life better because to her all our lives are intertwined. Raising one raises us all.

    Hillary Clinton lives it, I’m ashamed to say I can only aspire to that level of commitment. Hillary has done it. All I have done is sat and watched. I am ashamed.

    When it starts to go bad, “work inside out”. As an Air Traffic Controller this is what I taught the new people. It is a way to regain control and calm the fear of losing it. Think of it as a reset.
    Quitting is not an option. Succumbing to fear is not an option. 100% is the only option. So I reset.

    “Few will have the greatness to bend history itself, but each of us can work to change a small portion of events. It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.”
    ― Robert F. Kennedy

    “The purpose of life is to contribute in some way to making things better.”
    ― Robert F. Kennedy

    • NW Luna says:

      Thank you for joining in the circle of compassion here. But you’re wrong about not thinking of your reason for supporting Hillary! It’s what I feel also — her inherent, integral commitment to doing good. Oh, and all the other qualities she has also.

    • Bryn says:

      I like this post tremendously.

      This is my first time to post here, though I’ve been following since 2008 and the shitstorm that Hillary and Hillary-supporters endured then. I’ve come to rely on all of you for your intelligence, strength, humor, and wisdom. I very rarely post but I wanted to say “thank you all” for your existence. Now I shall return to the shadows. 🙂

  19. jan says:

    One thing I think I am going to do this year. I am going to spend as little as possible on new goods, except for food. And I think we should all donate to such things as Planned Parenthood, food banks, and buy at Goodwill type thrift stores for the things we do need. Maybe if the corporations take a hit in their profits they will see that a trump/republican administration is not good for the economy. Well, it is a thought.

    • NW Luna says:

      Yes, I agree. Been thinking this too, and bet all of us have, although for me it’s also due to worry about my resources and how bad things may become.

    • Enheduanna says:

      Could not agree more.

      My whole house is furnished with thrift store finds – I look for “retro” items. My kitchen in particular is full of vintage diner dishes such as Buffalo China, etc. I have a huge collection of cute and colorful Pyrex and Fire King bakeware (btw old glass baking dishes are much higher quality than the new ones). Often a lot of things just need a good cleaning.

      I always give to the local food bank at Thanksgiving and look for matching donation solicitations from PP and my animal charities.

  20. Vger says:

    Check out SNL cold opening. Made me cry but also made me lift my head up high.