Thursday: Hillary, Vlad, and the Crisis in Ukraine
Posted: March 6, 2014 Filed under: Barack Obama, Foreign Affairs, morning reads, U.S. Politics | Tags: Adolf Hitler, Godwin's law, Hillary Clinton, Nazi Germany, Ukraine crisis, Vladimir Putin 90 Comments
Good Morning!!
We’re close to two years away from the 2016 presidential primaries, but already the media is putting everything Hillary Clinton said or does under a microscope. I don’t know how I’m going to get through this. For some reason, I just can’t help being protective of Hillary even if I don’t agree with everything she says. The latest flap is over remarks she made about Vladimir Putin’s actions in Ukraine at a private fundraiser for the Boys and Girls Clubs of Long Beach, CA .
It began on Tuesday night when Buzzfeed’s Ruby Cramer reported what she learned from two people who attended the event: Hillary Clinton Compares Russia Moves To Nazi Aggression.
“Mrs. Clinton talked at length on the situation in the Ukraine,” said one attendee, Harry Saltzgaver, the executive editor of a group of newspapers in Long Beach.
Both Saltzgaver and a second fundraiser attendee, who requested to speak without attribution, described Clinton’s parallel between the actions of Russian President Vladimir Putin and Adolf Hitler, who resettled tens of thousands of ethnic Germans in Eastern and Central Europe to Nazi Germany before the war.
“She compared issuing Russian passports to Ukrainians with ties to Russia with early actions by Nazi Germany before Hitler began invading neighboring countries,” Saltzgaver said. “She said, however, that while that makes people nervous, there is no indication that Putin is as irrational as the instigator of World War II.”
A reporter also provided Cramer with direct quotes:
According to the Long Beach Press Telegram, whose reporter attended the event, Clinton told attendees, “Now if this sounds familiar, it’s what Hitler did back in the 30s,” she said. “All the Germans that were … the ethnic Germans, the Germans by ancestry who were in places like Czechoslovakia and Romania and other places, Hitler kept saying they’re not being treated right. I must go and protect my people and that’s what’s gotten everybody so nervous.”
Oh no! Clinton breaks Godwin’s law! Suddenly there was a stampede to be the first to criticize her for invoking Hitler. I mean, how dare she? She’s only the former Secretary of State and a possible candidate for president in 2016.
Philip Rucker at the WaPo: Hillary Clinton’s Putin-Hitler comments draw rebukes as she wades into Ukraine conflict.
Hillary Rodham Clinton has sparked a political uproar this week by wading into the middle of the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, likening the moves of Russian President Vladimir Putin to the actions of Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler leading up to World War II.
The former secretary of state’s provocative comparison drew swift rebukes Wednesday from U.S.-Russia policy experts — including some who served under her husband, former president Bill Clinton — while attracting rare notes of support from hawkish Republicans in Congress.
The comments put Clinton, a possible 2016 presidential candidate, at odds with President Obama and her former administration colleagues, who have been measured in their statements on Ukraine in hopes of avoiding an escalation of Putin’s incursion into Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula.
Rucker quoted one “expert” who claimed Hillary was trying to take a “hard line” on Putin now because she had been “the face of the Obama administration’s “effort to “reset” its policy with Russia.”
Ian Bremmer, president of Eurasia Group, a nonpartisan global risk consulting firm, said Clinton’s Hitler comment signaled she was trying to “stage manage” the Russia issue.
“Hillary’s too smart to actually believe that Putin’s actions are remotely close to anything that Hitler did,” Bremmer said. “The only reason she would say that is that she believes she was vulnerable in having been the architect of the failed ‘reset’ and wants to show that she’s harder-line than anybody else.”
But former Russian Ambassador Michael McFaul disagreed.
He said Clinton was “much more skeptical” of Putin than other administration colleagues, that she was the first U.S. official to condemn Putin’s disputed 2011 election, and that she made a point of meeting with civil-society critics during official visits to Russia.
Buzzfeed’s Andrew Kaczinski followed up on his colleague’s reporting with a clarification from Hillary in a report on her appearance at at UCLA yesterday.
“The claims by President Putin and other Russians that they had to go into Crimea and maybe further into Eastern Ukraine because they had protect the Russia minorities,” Clinton said Wednesday, “that is reminiscent of claims that were made back in the 1930s when Germany under the Nazis kept talking about how they had to protect German minorities in Poland, in Czechoslovakia, and elsewhere throughout Europe. So I just want everybody to have a little historic perspective. I’m not making a comparison certainly, but I am recommending that we perhaps can learn from this tactic that has been used before.”
Clinton also assessed Putin’s personality, based on her personal experience:
“As for President Putin, I know we are dealing with a tough guy with a thin skin,” Clinton said. “I’ve had a lot of experience — well, not only with him but with people like that — but in particular with President Putin. I know that his political vision is of a greater Russia.”
“I support the administration’s call for Russia to respect its obligation and to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity of Ukraine,” Clinton added.
Still, at CNN last night Timothy Stanley chided Hillary for “raising the specter of another world war.” Sorry, but isn’t Putin the one doing that? A couple more reactions:
LA Times: Hillary Clinton highlights pragmatism in approach to Russia
Hillary Rodham Clinton defended her record as secretary of State against Republican criticism that she had been too accommodating to Russia, arguing Wednesday that she had taken a tough but pragmatic approach so the U.S. could attain its goals.
In remarks at UCLA’s Royce Hall, Clinton assertively brushed aside opponents’ suggestions that she and the Obama administration effectively invited Russian President Vladimir Putin‘s recent incursion into Ukraine by failing to blunt his aggression.
Clinton said that when she became secretary of State in 2009, “we had some business we wanted to get done with Russia.” Among the U.S. goals at the time: an arms control agreement, the creation of a pathway through Russia to provide support for U.S. troops in Afghanistan, and an effort to get Russia into the World Trade Organization.
“There is a debate in foreign policy, and you hear these voices on TV right now: ‘These are bad folks; they’re doing bad things; do nothing with them,'” Clinton said, adding that her approach was to “be smart about it; pick and choose; stand your ground on disagreements, but look for ways to get things done.”
Pointing to the administration’s accomplishments, Clinton said that the U.S. “even got [Russia] to support sanctions against Iran in the [U.N.] Security Council — something people predicted we couldn’t get done.”
NYT The Caucus Blog: Clinton Ratchets Up Criticism of Putin and Backs Obama.
Hillary Rodham Clinton continued her sharp condemnation of Russian President Vladamir V. Putin here on Wednesday, calling him “a tough guy with a thin skin” and saying she supports the Obama administration’s call for Russia to resist further intervention in neighboring Ukraine.
“His political vision is of a greater Russia. I said when I was still secretary that his goal is to re-Sovietize Russia’s periphery,” Mrs. Clinton said at the top of remarks she delivered at the University of California. In the process, she said, Mr. Putin is “squandering the potential of such a great nation. The nation of Russia.”
I think Hillary handled herself pretty well, and I agree with her tough approach to Putin. Let’s not forget that Putin has Edward Snowden and all his stolen secrets. As former NASA analyst John Schindler tweeted yesterday,
“As crisis mounts and war looms, I hope US and NATO have excellent intelligence on Russia. Too bad #Snowden compromised all that SIGINT…”
Just one last article on the crisis in Ukraine, this time from the Russian standpoint and it shows the need for Western leaders to take clear stands. From the Moscow Times: Why There Will Be War in Ukraine. Author Sergei Markov of The Institute of Political Studies argues that the current leadership in Ukraine is anti-Russian and will intimidate Russian speakers living in the country. He predicts this could eventually lead to efforts to overthrow Putin in Russia.
After that, Kiev may evict Russia’s Black Sea Fleet from Sevastopol and purge Crimea of any Russian influence. Ukraine could easily become a radicalized, anti-Russian state, at which point Kiev will fabricate a pretext to justify taking subversive action against Moscow. This looks especially likely considering that ruling coalition members from the neo-fascist Svoboda and Right Sector parties have already made territorial claims against Russia. They could easily send their army of activists to Russia to join local separatists and foment rebellion in the North Caucasus and other unstable regions in Russia. In addition, Russia’s opposition movement will surely want to use the successful experience and technology of the Euromaidan protests and, with the help and financial support of the West, try to carry out their own revolution in Moscow. The goal: to remove President Vladimir Putin from power and install a puppet leadership that will sell Russia’s strategic interests out to the West in the same way former President Boris Yeltsin did in the 1990s….
Markov too breaks Godwin’s law:
Putin made the right decision: He did not to wait for that attack and took preventative measures. Many in the West say the Kremlin’s reactions were paranoiac, but Germany’s Jews also thought the same of leaving the country in 1934. Most of them chose to believe they were safe and remained in Germany even after Hitler came to power. The infamous Kristallnacht took place five years later, one of the first early chapters in the “Final Solution.” Similarly, just four years remain until Russia’s presidential election in 2018, and there is a strong risk that subversive forces within and outside Russia will try to overthrow Putin, in part using their new foothold in Ukraine.
Will there be war in Ukraine? I am afraid so. After all, the extremists who seized power in Kiev want to see a bloodbath. Only fear for their own lives might stop them from inciting such a conflict. Russia is prepared to move its forces into southern and eastern Ukraine if repressive measures are used against the Russian-speaking population or if a military intervention occurs. Russia will not annex Crimea. It has enough territory already. At the same time, however, it will also not stand by passively while Russophobic and neo-Nazi gangs hold the people of Crimea, Kharkiv and Donetsk at their mercy.
Yikes!
peej
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Mona (aka Wonk the Vote)
Sky Dancing 
In terms of Hillary’s personality analysis of Putin, here’s an interesting article from CNN:
The Two Putins
Good article. I think Hillary is just trying to put some historical context on the tactics being used by Putin. I have no problem with that at all and do not believe she went Godwin. Too many people inside the beltway are like little baby ducks, in that, every morning it’s a brand new world.
I agree. I thought what she said was quite clear the first time. Are we supposed to be banned from ever referring to Hitler? No. Godwin’s law is about the bizarre, irrelevant comparisons. There wasn’t this much fuss about Lindsay Graham claiming Benghazi caused Ukraine.
I majored in Jewish and Russian / East European history in college. Hitler comparisons usually make me extremely uncomfortable. My history professors always warned against them. However, when Putin made his move into Crimea, my first thought was “Sudetenland”. I believe it is a valid comparison and Hillary’s statements have been spot-on. Does that make Putin into a 21st century version of Hitler? No. But if he tries to take all of Ukraine we should really start to worry. Where does his reach end? The problem is we don’t know yet.
Ukrainian nationalism is strong. Putin and the pro-Russians are trying to paint all Ukrainian nationalists as “neo-Nazis”. Neo-Nazi groups do indeed exist in Ukraine but hatred toward Moscow is deep and long-standing among the general population including Western-leaning Ukrainian democrats ( democrats with a little “d” ). The famine of 1932-33, in which millions of Ukrainians died, is recognized by the independent Ukrainian government as an act of genocide against their population by the Stalinist regime. Ukrainians remember and will not submit to Putin without a bloody fight. They want to maintain their independence from Russia. It will get very ugly if Putin tries to take control of Kiev.
I hope my comment makes sense. The history and politics of Ukraine are so complicated and my blogging skills are a little rusty. I read Sky Dancing every day and appreciate the excellent posts and comments. I just haven’t been able to get my thoughts together recently to comment.
You’re totally making sense. Thanks for sharing your knowledge about the history. I admit I’m clueless about what’s really happening.
Think Progress:
Meet The 7 Democrats Who Just Voted Down A Civil Rights Nominee For Supporting Civil Rights
Cowards!
Sen. Harkin: Senate Would Have Confirmed Obama’s Top Civil Rights Nominee If He Was White
Coming retirement seems to be have freed Tom Harkin.
A solution to a 3-year old mystery?
Suspect Charged with Killing Missing Nursing Student Holly Bobo
Murder charge in Bobo case stuns community
Mother of Zach Adams talks about Bobo case
The guy sounds like real creep. I wonder why it took so long for them to arrest him? There also no indication a body has been found.
Hillary was merely pointing to past history. Something few politicians do these days since they seem to believe that “history” begins and ends with the Reagan era and have little desire to study anything prior to his election.
Putin is from the old school. His comfort zone is retrieving all those countries who broke away from the USSR while rebuilding the Soviet Union once again. The Ukraine is just the beginning.
The GOP won’t be satisfied until we send in troops and nukes into a region that does not actually concern us. Right now several countries along with ours is looking for a loophole that will allow Putin to “save face” and that can only happen by talking, talking, talking.
The problem is that so few study – or have any real knowledge – of historical events that have shaped our destinies. The lack of education in this area alone is what is going to take this nation down a wary path if we can never learn from past experience.
Hillary was right in her assessment. She ought to be listened to.
I agree.
Me too. “A tough guy with a thin skin,” right on the nose!
Damn, I just lost a 3-paragraph insightful comment on Hillary’s commentary and understanding of history vs ill-informed people jumping to conclusions and because Benghazi. I hate it when I accidentally hit the wrong key combination and my laptop restarts on me….. 😦
BTW I haven’t been obvious here lately because of (1) too much IRL stuff and (2) more time at work, and it’s not the best idea for me to be commenting on-line, even briefly, when at work. I read regularly and, as ever, I enjoy and learn from the posts, and the comments.
I just hate when that happens! Thanks for commenting Luna. I noticed you’ve been around late at night–figured it was because of your work schedule. Hope you’re getting enough rest.
The GOP wants boots on the ground all over the globe. They would still have us in Iraq. They want to keep a permanent presence in Afghanistan. They would Bomb-bomb Iran given a chance. They would, without hesitation, send troops to Syria if they could. They would have inserted us into Libya and likely Egypt if there were enough warm bodies around to stuff into a uniform. Now the Ukraine, where even military analysts say that a U.S. military action isn’t an option. In fact even John McCain admitted, under questioning, that there was no military option, but only after he had excoriated Obama for not acting quicker. Acting quicker HOW? If a military option is “off the table”, what other kind of action, that hasn’t already been taken or is in process, would have mattered?
So Obama didn’t attack Syria, or Libya, or bomb Iran and because he didn’t take a war posture in those places that sent an ultrasonic signal to Putin’s testicles and now Putin has Super Extra Large Balls? Really? No one, who’s been around to see the antics of Russia/USSR for the past 70 years could believe, for even a second, that Russian leaders or military give a damn about conventional behavior or respect for the autonomy of other countries. Russia has always done whatever in the hell it took a notion to do and worried about the consequences later. SEE: Lenin, Stalin, Kruschev, Breshnev.
Oh, and while we’re thinking about what Obama could or should have done in the Ukraine don’t forget, Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly. Only a black president could get Republicans sucking up to Russia. It’s ridiculous.
True that!!!
And their latest Obama hate-meme is: Obama is responsible for what’s happening in Venezuela, because Obama didn’t bomb Syria and Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi!!!
Message to:
John McCain – Retire Now, The sour grape stains are beginning to show on your dentures.
Sarah Palin – The dog team is harnessed and ready to take you home.
Lindsey Graham – You need to stop jonesing for war and find a good burly man to ease your pain!
Jeez, they really are ridiculous.
From the State Dept:
President Putin’s Fiction: 10 False Claims about Ukraine
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/03/222988.htm
Good statement. I think refuting Putin’s claims that ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under attack is very important. I have seen no legitimate reports that they are in danger and need to be “protected” by Putin.
Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis
I guess they’d better get busy!
Watch out for that referendum, I read the party which is now running the Crimean parliament got a whopping 4% of the vote in the last elections.
That figures. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
You mean he didn’t send in the 101st Airborne and drop bombs on the Crimea? What is he thinking? Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi
lol
Thanks for this post, BB, you’ve gathered all the salient pieces and sorted them out for us. Any smart woman, particularly one as smart as Hill, is going to be the brunt of ill-informed media dullards who latch on to anything to fill space without having to work for it.
Thanks Joanelle. I’m really glad Hillary has learned to be tough with extra-thick skin.
She is tough. It will take more than a misrepresentation of her comments concerning Putin’s tactics to rattle her. She’s going to be THE NEXT POTUS!!!! And it can’t come quick enough to suit me.
Right now, I’m thinking it’s too bad she’s not still SOS. I have little confidence in Kerry.
Me neither.
I’m just conspiracy theorist enough to question Putin’s actions on the heals of the announcement that the U.S. defense budget is being drastically cut. I’ve already read remarks from right wingers about the fact that “we can’t cut defense now…”. So now Hillary is seizing the opportunity to present her vast knowledge and foreign policy bona fides, and showing that’s she’s not intimidated by Mr. KGB. The nerve of her! When will she learn her place?
I don’t know about anyone else, but throughout this entire event I’ve been thinking, “I wish Hillary was still Secretary of State.” But I can wait for her to become President Clinton.
The timing is incredible and the GOP war hawks are crying crocodile tears over the defense budget being cut with the Ukraine action by Putin. Never mind that our defense budget is larger than the combined defense budgets of the next 10 largest military programs, because that does not compute for the Warmongers. You see, to their mind we are the police force of the world. We are THE MAN. We should put our forces, which by the way are predominantly the children of the poor and lower middle class, into every conflict on the globe, How else would the Defense Contractors make out like bandits while our children die for a lie.
Brilliantly said.
Thank you Janicen, I’m flattered, “brilliantly” is not generally a word associated with me or my comments. 🙂
And “brilliant” was the first word that came to mind when I read it.
The “defense cuts” still provide more money than was in the sequester. We should leave the sequester in place and take a hatchet to the Pentagon for more, IMHO.
U.S. 2013 Defense Budget compared to 13 other countries (13 largest). Some interesting info here and proof positive how much overkill (no pun intended) is in U.S. Defense Budget
https://www.google.com/search?q=u.s.+2013+defense+budget+compared+to+other+countries&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_qoYU4KkI5LRkQf3qIG4BQ&ved=0CE0QsAQ&biw=1093&bih=430
I am glad to see she isn’t being portrayed as weak. At least that old stereotype is being dashed.
CSM’s Dan Murphy: Ukraine is not a game.
Glad to see Lady Lindsay is being taken to task, finally.
The crapola being dished out by the GOP’s usual suspects, Graham, McCain, McConnell, Boehner, Palin and all the talking zombies at FOX is without any basis in fact.
And Sarah Palin saying that “Putin wrestles bears and Obama wears Mom jeans” makes me want to string together a rant that would force the SkyDancers to ban me. What is the implication of that comment? Putin is a man and Obama is a ??????? I’m so sick of Palin I could spit.
Ditto, I getting grey hair over that blue eyed devil woman.
She’s saying that Putin abuses animals and Obama wears what he feels comfortable in. That’s my interpretation 😉 Palin needs a job doing the gossip column in a small-town newspaper.
Bloomberg: Putin Isn’t Crazy, He’s KGB
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-03-05/putin-isn-t-crazy-he-s-kgb
Those two things are certainly not mutually exclusive. However, I think it’s more likely that Putin is trapped in an information bubble of his own choosing and doesn’t see clearly now.
These two things together are rage inducing! The Senate votes down the bill to remove prosecution from the chain of command. It was not a party line vote.
Senate Blocks Bill To Overhaul Prosecution Of Rape In The Military
And here you have some of that fine chain of command. Fucking assholes!
Oh Good Lord
Good Grief.
PPP Poll: John McCain Is The Least Popular Senator In The Country
Doesn’t mean much now but I still liked reading it. 😉
One of Ukraine’s chief rabbis has compared Russia’s actions in Crimea to the Anschluss.
( Note: I strongly disagree with the rabbi’s suggestion that the US military become involved in Ukraine but I think it is significant that one of Ukraine’s Jewish leaders also sees the comparison between Putin’s tactics and Nazi history so I am linking to the article. )
http://forward.com/articles/193766/ukraine-chief-rabbi-accuses-russia-of-anti-semitic/
Will Bernie run? If he does, what will that mean for Hillary’s chances?
http://www.thenation.com/blog/178717/bernie-sanders-i-am-prepared-run-president-united-states
I doubt it would mean much but he would get the FDL votes and other purity trolls.
Unless FDL picks Rand Paul of course?
The Nader effect concerns me.
Me too. I will hope Bernie is too realistic to let the ideal become the enemy of the good.
I love Bernie, but I don’t think he’ll run. He could never muster the resources to run as an Independent. The closest anyone has come in my lifetime to doing it that way was Ross Perot and he spent a lot of his own fortune trying to win enough primary votes to get on stage at the debates. If I remember correctly he didn’t make it onto the final Presidential ballot in all 50 states And I don’t think he would hurt Hillary if he ran as a Dem because people who aren’t political gym rats, like most of us, have no idea who Bernie is. For those who think Hillary is too old to run for POTUS Bernie will look like Methuselah.
My heart’s delight would be a Clinton/Saunders ticket. I know that’s improbable bordering on impossible, but I can dream…
And We can dream.
Snowden leaks could cost military billions, according to Chairman of Joint Chiefs.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/snowden-leaks-could-cost-military-billions-pentagon-n46426
But he sitteth on the right hand of the Putin, so he’s safe, for now!!!
They’ve got buildings full of planners. Better get busy changing some.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/06/true-detective-s-godless-universe-is-the-hbo-show-anti-christian.html
Not sure disconcerting is a strong enough word for that childhood. Really grateful that my family wasn’t religious. Wonder if my not experiencing those tensions between religion and rationality is why I seem more mystified by True Detective than some other people. I have little or no interest in the supernatural aspects of the show, other than the cruelty which is a by-product.
Yeah … something beyond disconcerting … none of my family is religious either
The stuff Pizzolatto was talking about–Medjugorje and all that–wasn’t sanctioned by the Church. They called it a hoax.
I didn’t think so. Jesuits have more sense than that.
My mother had a strong devotion to the Virgin Mary and I was raised to have one, too. The Holy Mother was a loving presence in our home. I have felt that presence many times in my life, both as a child and as an adult, helping me in times of need. I have even felt Her comforting hand upon my shoulder. Nothing scary about it at all. Just the opposite in fact.
Luckily, I wasn’t raised in an “end times” religious environment so I don’t relate to that experience. It must have been traumatic for Pizzolatto.
I didn’t know there was any group of catholics with end times paranoia … I thought it was a protestant thing
Beata…..My grandmother was devoted to the Blessed Mother. She said the rosary 3 times a day, morning, noon, and at bedtime. She even had an altar in her bedroom and several statues of the Blessed Mother around the house. In her flower garden, she had a beautiful statue of Mary. So, I too was raised with the Blessed Mother’s presence. I no longer pray the rosary, but I used my grandmother’s beads to help with meditation.
Like you no “end time” prophecy in my upbringing and frankly, I have many, many catholic friends and none of them are into the end times BS. I’m pretty certain that the end time crowd is mostly evangelical protestant.
I hope you’re doing well Beata. I think of you often and with affection. Peace to you and thanks for sharing your knowledge of the Ukraine up thread. I wish I knew more about that part of the world, but like most American’s I don’t. so it’s great to have your knowledge to help correct our thinking.
Thank you for your kind thoughts, Mouse. Peace to you, too.
I tell myself everything is going to be fine. On good days, I even believe my own b.s. about that. Lol.
“Vilnius (AFP) – The United States on Thursday sent six additional F-15 fighter jets to step up NATO’s air patrols over the Baltic states, mission host Lithuania said as West-Russia tensions simmered over Ukraine.”
So what are the haters going to say about this? They’re going to say ” yeah but, Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m not sure doing anything at all militarily is a wise idea? But that doesn’t seem to be terribly provocative to me.
I agree ralph, but nothing Obama does or will do satisfies the haters. He’s damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.
CPAC. yuck!
https://twitter.com/billmon1/statuses/441602989149917184
I beg to differ, this is worse.
Weigel: CPAC2014: Ted Cruz and the Nightmare of Iranian EMP Attacks
Elmer Gantry, wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. This asshole could be an Onion lampoon or a very dangerous demagogue.
Let me add that I’m sure EMPact doesn’t have any over-priced will-never-be-used low quality survival gear to sell the rubes!
In this case, Hillary was entirely correct (on substance). But IMHO tactically, she should have framed it a bit differently – referencing Sudetenland, then giving the details, rather than starting off with ““Now if this sounds familiar, it’s what Hitler did back in the 30s”. Starting the statement the way she did was (tactically) a bit too bald; more likely to precipitate a negative reaction (rather than making people think).
One thing I have to say that really bugs me – far too many people on the American left regurgitate Putin propaganda (with Ukraine, Syria, etc.). It seems that a lot of people can’t walk and chew gum at the same time (i.e. condemning American imperialism while not reducing situations such as Ukraine to kneejerk caricatures).
BTW – I’m far on the left myself (somewhat further left than even SkyDancing, on average). But I sometimes feel as though I have no home (no tribe) where I fully belong. I had a strong sense of that in 2007-2008 election (unlike everyone around me, I was opposed to Obama), and I still feel pretty tribeless today.
You could join the crowd. We tend to be mostly left but may wander, depending on the issue or person, with no hard feelings.
There are socialists here. Welcome.
Hey, most of us were opposed to Obama in ’08 because there was a better candidate and one who got more votes, until the caucus tricks and the overthrow of Rules Board precedents.
I finally got to vote for a Socialist last year for one of my city’s Councilmembers. She won!
I’m so fucking tired of New Yorkers who “discover us” and move here. There is kale all over the place but this idiot NYT’s reporter and her fauxhemian friends can’t find it for some reason.
Californians are all over the damn place here, so I sympathize. At least most of them seem to be Democrats in our blue dot. In my son’s swank Prosper neighborhood, north of Dallas, they’re mostly Northeastern and Republican so it could be worse.
I’m so old I remember when nobody ate kale but us weird vegetarians and poor country people. Decades before vegan.
Yes, back in the day, Kale was something you put in bean soup. Now they eat Kale chips!
oh for the love of the goddesses
Bobby Jindal compares the Obama administration to George Wallace http://huff.to/1g3gXlR #CPAC2014 pic.twitter.com/XcfvH7tHB9
Don’t watch the speech with a full stomach … you.will.vomit.
It’s good to see our sisters and brothers huddled around when they go after Hillary. Well, I really want to say thank you, because soon enough we be getting down to work when Hillary runs. All of you have shared your thoughts, and you been reaching out for long, long time. Just like Hillary. We all know how hard it’s going to be, we cared enough then to help crack that 18 million glass ceiling.
Beata I appreciate your expertise on Russia, and BB, you’re continual fact finding on the Snowden, you have been doing a lot. Everybody else, Dak, Ralph, all of you have really put your talents, and thoughts and opinion to good use. I’ve learned a lot.
I have been thinking about Hillary, how she trust people, and is loyal to the point that it’s hurt her at times. That’s the case with Philip Reines who she trusted in giving Sergei Lavron the gift of reset button. Yes, it was wrong, the language was messed up, but watch the laughter, and how she turned it into a positive thing…………….that’s when I wish I had a Hit that Luv Button for Hillary. Then I can’t help but laugh at John McCain who told Hillary he would have found a state department who understands Russia……..what comes to my mind is how he creeped into Syria and Turkey to meet with Freed Syrian army, when he was meeting with Al Qaeda Terrorist and didn’t fuckin’ who they were.
Hillary is right, PUTIN is a WAR LORD.
Love to see her laughing and smiling! I’m ready for 2016!
Oh, ready for Hillary! Since 2008.