Live Blog 2: Laughing Joe and Smirking Paul Veep Show
Posted: October 11, 2012 Filed under: 2012 elections, 2012 presidential campaign, Live Blog | Tags: Biden, Romney, VP Debate 84 Comments
Well, they are really going at it.
Vice President Joe Biden and Rep. Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin each went immediately on the attack at the opening of their debate on Thursday night, sparring over Libya, Iraq and terrorism.
Responding to a question on the fatal attack last month on the U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, Biden assailed Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney on a range of national security matters.
“Whatever mistakes were made will not be made again,” Biden said of the attack in Libya before pivoting to Romney’s support of the war in Iraq.
Biden credited President Obama for ending the Iraq war, saying Romney thought “we should have left 30,000 troops there.” He faulted Romney for objecting early on to Obama’s setting a 2014 deadline for withdrawing U.S. troops from Afghanistan, and for saying he “wouldn’t move heaven and Earth” to capture Osama bin Laden.
Ryan, the Republican nominee for vice president, said he mourned the death of Ambassador J. Christopher Stevensand three other Americans in the Libya attack, then criticized Obama’s response to the attack.
“It took the president two weeks to acknowledge that this was a terrorist attack,” the Wisconsin congressman said.
Ryan said a Romney administration would provide Marines protecting an outpost like the one in Benghazi.
“If we’re hit by terrorists, we’re going to call it for what it is — a terrorist attack,” he said.
Ryan also castigated Obama’s administration for its evolving accounts of the Libya attack. “This is becoming more troubling by the day,” he said.
WAPO says they have “different styles”.
The first 45 minutes showed two men with widely divergent styles: Ryan, the House Budget Committee chairman, was precise and self-contained, marshalling numbers and policy issues.
Biden was looser and more familiar, chuckling in seeming exasperation several times at Ryan’s arguments, and interrupting the Republican in mid-argument. Eventually, Ryan seemed frustrated with a debate in which the two talked over each other.
“Mr. Vice President, I know you’re under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground,” Ryan said. “But I think people would be better served if we didn’t keep interrupting each other.”
One of Ryan’s best early moments came in response to the debate’s first question, about the attack in Benghazi, Libya, that killed the U.S. ambassador and three others. Ryan recounted how the White House’s account of the attack had shifted, and cast it as a signal of a broader problem.
“What we are watching on our TV screens is the unraveling of the Obama foreign policy, which is making…us less safe,” Ryan said.
For Biden, the sharpest moment may have been when he picked up on the theme that President Obama did not touch in the first presidential debate. He recalled a Romney speech that was secretly recorded, in which the Republican candidate described 47 percent of Americans as people who considered themselves primarily victims.
“I’ve had it up to here with this notion that, ‘Forty-seven percent, it’s about time they take some sort of responsibility here,’” Biden said.
What do you think about this assessment?
For political junkies and decided voters, this is a great debate. For the rest, it’s everything they hate about politics #vpdebate
peej
Carissa
ecocatwoman
grayslady
mablue2
JJ Lopez aka Minkoff Minx
peggysue22
skydancingguestblogger
Mona (aka Wonk the Vote)
Sky Dancing 
neither of these tickets has any vision.
It reminds me of a congressional briefing to the press on foreign policy mostly. Probably because of the moderator.
Steve Clemons @SCClemons
Biden mentions Allies and their positions on #Afghanistan. Ryan celebrating unilateralism but doesn’t want to raise taxes to pay for wars.
When do I get to here about women’s issues?
Hillary 2016
That hasn’t been on HER agenda….go figure…
Yeah, nothing said about women? What the fuck that is two debates now…
Ryan doesn’t seem to think, we will have fewer troops there next year…………….damn.
Wow, am I glad I got vodka for martinis tonight!
I already had a vodka tonic…not really helping. Guess I’ll have to make it a double
I’m having a cosmo …
I don’t drink alcohol. I’m having a dark chocolate Ensure. It’s not helping at all.
I got chocolate for the soul.
Ryan, tell us what you would do about Syria? Yes, Biden, he never answers the questions.
What would you do now, and Ryan says draw the red line, and turn on the green light………hahaha, Biden bite him.
YES!!!!!!!!! She asks about ABORTION!!!
Sheesh .. Ryan is pro-life because of reason and science? that’s pretty weird.
and now we’re off on Obama assaulting freedom of religion …
Bean. Smirk smirk. Biden eyebrows narrow.
Assaulting religious freedoms..bullshit…what about the assaults on women..stick this probe up you and we will think about it.
I purposely have avoided watching the debate…but my dad is watching it. He told me they were really going at it, like they were going to start fighting each other. He said he thought the old guy could take the young one.
It reminds me of family dinners at the Irish side of the family, frankly.
Nah, they’re all sober and nobody’s hit anyone or called anyone a feckin’ eejit. Nobody’s cried and sung “Danny Boy” either.
I would have like to see the Danny Boy singing…
All I know is Ryan is going to make a beeline for the John with all that water he has consumed!
I had to turn it off when Ryan started with the eyes thing, straight into the camera.
Silent Kate, all that water, I’m surprised his eyes aren’t floating.
we used to sing tura lura lura and my grandmother Atha Maria Dennis frowned at any one with whiskey since her father got murdered on his way him from the local bar one night … we did get a lot of dirty shanty or lace irish names thrown around though, even without the whiskey
Okay, now we’re trying to out-Catholic each other … wonder what JFK would say?
Joe is somber and Paul is blinking and smirking
Fuck Ryan……………
Excuse me? You might create another Ryan as he wouldn’t let you abort his creation…I couldn’t resist…I’m just kidding!
I tell ya – I shouted that one out of my mouth in one breath.
Yeah, and his little dog Romney too!
Tell that muther to borrow some money from his momma, and go back to college and get a real job.
Ditto!!!!
I think Ryan needs to stop masturbating because he’s killing all of those unborn children!
Lolololololol…
Isn’t it a little un prolife of him to have so few children? Just askin?
HuffPo poll at 1 hour mark. Biden winning 65 – 35
Ryan just answered Honesty. I think I’m going to faint.
Did anyone else notice that Ryan apparently thinks Kofi Annan is still Sec Gen of the UN? They are a few years behind.
No, I guessed I missed it. Glad you caught it. And I hope the media talks about that.
Good heartfelt closing statement by Biden. Finally brought up the 47%. What took him so long?
Beata I think he did bring it up before his closing statement………..I like the “leveling of the playing field”………………..and he knocked it out of the ballpark.
Fannie, I hope Biden did bring it up before and I just missed it.
He did bring it up before
Biden did mention the Romney “secret tape” earlier. I recall that. But I think he could have hit much harder on Romney’s statement that nearly half the population are victims who take no responsibility for their lives.
Biden KICKED RYAN’S ASS!!! That says it all.
Thank you Lawrence O’Donnell, for calling out that stupid Catholic question.
I think Joe did really well. I didn’t expect that from him.
Martha did a good job moderating, she was able to push the candidates and that always helps to expose the bullshitter.
Yeah, the bullshitter was shiny shitt.
Yeah there was fire tonight, and that’s what I wanted starting out. I think the moderator was good, but she injected here and there and that bothered me on occasion. Listen, if somebody comes up to me tomorrow and ask what Biden said about this or that, I can honestly answer, if they asked by what Ryan said, I’d have to say he had no specifics, so I still don’t know, except he doesn’t believe in the seperation of church and state.
My husband, who does not watch TV, or is very political. Just came in from the garage, and said, “I’ve never seen that guy before, I didn’t know Eddie Munster was running”.
lol
Front Page of Huffingfton
BIDEN’D
I think the debate as a whole was a draw. Obama supporters will think Biden won and Romney people will believe Ryan did, Meh. I doubt it will be a game-changer.
Frankly, Romney people will know damn well Ryan got his ass handed to him but they won’t be foolish or honest enough to admit it. They and their media hacks will spin like crazy.
In all fairness, Biden won, he set Ryan straight a time or two. One of my favorite points was all the loopholes Ryan was talking about, sure enough Biden came back in the bout and nearly took his ass apart, and that was pure pleasure for me to see.
I think Biden won, I’m a democrat and I don’t think the republicans would ever say Biden won. Even if Ryan wakes up with two black eyes.
I’m not talking about what supporters of either candidate will say in public. But Biden’s answers, even though they were factual, were often rambling, while Ryan, even though he was bullshitting, talked in simple sound bites. Also Ryan was used the Romney playbook – just lie without shame. A lot of people won’t be able to see through that.
I think this debate was a draw.
Wonk, I certainly wanted Biden to hit it out of the ballpark. I thought he would, but he didn’t, imo.
I think if Biden had not been laughing the entire time, he’d have won the debate clearly.
Republicans are saying the debate was a draw and Democrats are saying Biden won. That tells you all you need to know.
Does that make me a Republican, Ralph? Have I been outed? 😯 😆
If you’re a Republican, you do a good job of disguising it, Beata! I thought Biden won, because Ryan was on the defensive the whole night and he came across as a callow youth. He sounded like he was running for student council president. JMO, though.
Ryan sounded reminiscent of Bobby Jindal’s Kenneth the Page.
Beata, OMG No!!!!! That’s just a general comment.
I think the best part was Biden quoting Ryan on how the stimulus would help Ryan’s WI constituents.
Irony, thy name is ‘re-election campaigning’
Here’s my question………..was Ryan running for 2016 tonight, for himself, and not running for Ryan?
I’m listening to Chris ask Blondie about Ryan……….she says women are more worried about jobs than abortion, or their health care. I can tell you down at my hair salon the women were all talking about women’s rights, and not about jobs.
Ryan’s Mom Praises His Medicare Answer
The first press release to come from the Mitt Romney campaign after the vice presidential debate was from Paul Ryan’s mother, praising his answer on Medicare.
“Tonight’s debate showed seniors across the country that we have a very clear choice between the current administration, which has already cut Medicare by $716 billion to pay for Obamacare, and Mitt Romney and Paul who will protect Medicare for retirees like me and strengthen it for my grandchildren’s generation and generations thereafter,” said Betty Douglas in the press release.
The Romney campaign has used Douglas as a validater for its Medicare policy before. But in the wake of the debate, when the predominant theme coming from conservatives is that Joe Biden was mean and condescending to Ryan, it strikes an odd note to have his mom be the first to defend him.
— Sam Stein
That’s real mother love. She’s supporting him against her own best interest.
Yep, that’s a mother’s love. here’s a tweet for c. Pierce
Charles P. Pierce @ESQPolitics
Here it comes. Papist on Papist crime! Defining Catholicism through abortion is insulting, though. #VPdebate
Leave my baby alone!
Reminds me of the parents who are shocked, shocked, that their precious darling could have cheated on a test or raped a classmate, and instead attack the teacher or the victimized young girl.
Ryan’s mother doesn’t appear to have done her math about her precious son’s Medicare budget.
Charles P. Pierce @ESQPolitics
Paul Ryan has a friend in Afghanistan! What a guy
“tbogg Joe Biden is currently en route to Andrew Sullivan’s house to softly rock him to sleep. ”
That may win the internet for this evening 🙂
a few more …
tbogg David Gregory watched Martha Raddatz ask knowledgeable follow-up questions tonight and asked a friend “Is that legal? Really?”
tbogg Republican Marsha Blackburn thinks America is most concerned with Benghazi, Fast & Furious, and fake BLS numbers. Is she Tucker’s mom?
tbogg Never tire of longtime beltway pundits making six figures a year telling me how “middle America” is going to react to something.
and a retweet of Hindrocket for the clencher 🙂
tbogg John Hinderaker: “Sarah Palin did a much better job against Joe Biden in 2008 than Paul Ryan did tonight.” ||| That’s gonna leave a mark
tbogg Paul Ryan wants to keep his friend in Afghanistan for awhile longer. Doesn’t want to return lawn mower.
tbogg Ryan is going to run offstage and take a three minute pee.
tbogg I want the SS money back that was wasted on giving Paul Ryan a college education.
tbogg Never tire of longtime beltway pundits making six figures a year telling me how “middle America” is going to react to something.
I liked these too, Ralph
You’re right Ralph, tbogg just said Luke Russert was as dumb as a box of hair!
Scott Lemieux at LG&M: In Case You Missed Tonight’s Beatdown
I started a new thread up above, because this one is getting really long. Come on up and join me. I’m wide awake!