Wikileaks Drops the Big One
Posted: November 28, 2010 Filed under: Diplomacy Nightmares, Live | Tags: Wikileaks 110 Comments
Newspapers around the world are dropping the latest Wikileaks documents. The site itself is inaccessible but its tweets say that it is not under attack of any kind.
We’ll be adding to this post as links become available.
This overview was just put up by Huffpo.
The New York Times and The Guardian have published classified State Department documents provided to them by the online website WikiLeaks. The WikiLeaks website appeared to be inaccessible, and WikiLeaks said in its Twitter feed that it was experiencing a denial of service attack. WikiLeaks also provided the documents to Spain’s El Pais, France’s Le Monde, and Germany’s Der Spiegel.
According to The New York Times, the cables reveal how foreign leaders, including Israel’s defense minister Ehud Barak and Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah, urged the U.S. to confront Iran over its nuclear program.
“The cables also contain a fresh American intelligence assessment of Iran’s missile program,” The Times reports. “They reveal for the first time that the United States believes that Iran has obtained advanced missiles from North Korea that could let it strike at Western European capitals and Moscow and help it develop more formidable long-range ballistic missiles.”
The White House has made a statement and you can read that on the HuffPo piece too.
From Der Spiegel on line: A Super Power’s View of the World
The tone of trans-Atlantic relations may have improved, former US Ambassador to Germany William Timken wrote in a cable to the State Department at the end of 2006, but the chancellor “has not taken bold steps yet to improve the substantive content of the relationship.” That is not exactly high praise.
And the verdict on German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle? His thoughts “were short on substance,” wrote the current US ambassador in Berlin, Philip Murphy, in a cable. The reason, Murphy suggested, was that “Westerwelle’s command of complex foreign and security policy issues still requires deepening.”
Such comments are hardly friendly. But in the eyes of the American diplomatic corps, every actor is quickly categorized as a friend or foe. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia? A friend: Abdullah can’t stand his neighbors in Iran and, expressing his disdain for the mullah regime, said, “there is no doubt something unstable about them.” And his ally, Sheikh bin Zayed of Abu Dhabi? Also a friend. He believes “a near term conventional war with Iran is clearly preferable to the long term consequences of a nuclear armed Iran.”
[MABlue here]
I can’t wait to find out more in the hard copy of Der Spiegel tomorrow. As a subscriber, I normally get the new edition Saturdays in my mail. This week however, that did dot happen. So far, nobody has seen tomorrow’s edition where there’s more.
There are additional interesting links on the website of Der Spiegel:
Orders from Clinton: US Diplomats Told to Spy on Other Countries at United Nations
Foreign Policy Meltdown: Leaked Cables Reveal True US Worldview
Diplomatic Cables Reveal US Doubts about Turkey’s Government
The Germany Dispatches: Internal Source Kept US Informed of Merkel Coalition Negotiations
WikiLeaks FAQ: What Do the Diplomatic Cables Really Tell Us?
BBC News has a fine overview of some of the major issues addressed in the cables.
The NYT: Cables Shine Light Into Secret Diplomatic Channels
Some of the cables, made available to The New York Times and several other news organizations, were written as recently as late February, revealing the Obama administration’s exchanges over crises and conflicts. The material was originally obtained by WikiLeaks, an organization devoted to revealing secret documents. WikiLeaks intends to make the archive public on its Web site in batches, beginning Sunday.
The anticipated disclosure of the cables is already sending shudders through the diplomatic establishment, and could conceivably strain relations with some countries, influencing international affairs in ways that are impossible to predict.
The Guardian: US embassy cables leak sparks global diplomacy crisis
• More than 250,000 dispatches reveal US foreign strategies
• Diplomats ordered to spy on allies as well as enemies
• Hillary Clinton leads frantic ‘damage limitation’…
At the start of a series of daily extracts from the US embassy cables – many of which are designated “secret” – the Guardian can disclose that Arab leaders are privately urging an air strike on Iran and that US officials have been instructed to spy on the UN’s leadership.
These two revelations alone would be likely to reverberate around the world. But the secret dispatches which were obtained by WikiLeaks, the whistlebowers’ website, also reveal Washington’s evaluation of many other highly sensitive international issues.
These include a major shift in relations between China and North Korea, Pakistan’s growing instability and details of clandestine US efforts to combat al-Qaida in Yemen.
Among scores of other disclosures that are likely to cause uproar, the cables detail:
• Grave fears in Washington and London over the security of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons programme
• Alleged links between the Russian government and organised crime.
• Devastating criticism of the UK’s military operations in Afghanistan.
• Claims of inappropriate behaviour by a member of the British royal family.
The US has particularly intimate dealings with Britain, and some of the dispatches from the London embassy in Grosvenor Square will make uncomfortable reading in Whitehall and Westminster. They range from serious political criticisms of David Cameron to requests for specific intelligence about individual MPs.
Is WikiLeaks being sabotaged? They alleged the site has been hacked.
WikiLeaks claims attack before expected document release
Just hours ahead of an expected release of three million classified U.S. documents, the website WikiLeaks said it has been the target of a computer attack.
“We are currently under a mass distributed denial of service attack,” WikiLeaks tweeted midday Sunday.
Some of the latest updates
From the Guardian update:
Haaretz focuses on the June 2009 memo. This quotes Israel’s defence minister, Ehud Barak, telling visiting American officials that a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities was viable until the end of 2010, but after that “any military solution would result in unacceptable collateral damage.”
Reuters found this nugget: Saudi king urged U.S. to attack Iran: WikiLeaks
Saudi King Abdullah repeatedly urged the United States to attack Iran‘s nuclear program and China directed cyberattacks on the United States, according to a vast cache of U.S. diplomatic cables released on Sunday in an embarrassing leak that undermines U.S. diplomacy.
The NYTimes has published the letter exchange between the US Government and Julian Assange:
Letters between Wikileaks and the U.S. Government
Notable Tweets from Notable Tweeters:
benpolitico Ben Smith
RT @TimOBrienNYT: “@evgenymorozov: Saudi King Abdullah proposed implanting Bluetooth chips in Gitmo detainees http://goo.gl/uGln1
ggreenwald Glenn Greenwald
Must-read is right RT @mmhastings “must read: Simon Jenkins on why journalists should defend Wikileaks http://tinyurl.com/37yal4l “
washingtonpost The Washington Post
Leaked cables suggest diplomats ordered to engage in spying, news orgs report http://wapo.st/ecD3Ak#p2#tcot#wikileaks
ggreenwald Glenn Greenwald
To follow WikiLeaks disclosures, @GregMitch is live-blogging documents: http://bit.ly/hl4Vze
Greg Mitchell is at The Nation. I just read this one and it was a wonderful surprising story. Quick, some one get this man to write a book and get a screenwriter!!!
3:40Amazing story of how a 75-year-old American rode a horse over a mountain range to Turkey to finally get home from Iran.
BreakingNews Breaking News
China’s Politburo ordered hacking campaign against Google, per WikiLeaks documents – AFP http://yhoo.it/ihF2rE
GregMitch Greg Mitchell
WikiLeaks site, now up, reveal docs will actually be released for “months” to “do them justice.” http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/
Wikileaks began on Sunday November 28th publishing 251,287 leaked United States embassy cables, the largest set of confidential documents ever to be released into the public domain. The documents will give people around the world an unprecedented insight into US Government foreign activities.
The cables, which date from 1966 up until the end of February this year, contain confidential communications between 274 embassies in countries throughout the world and the State Department in Washington DC. 15,652 of the cables are classified Secret.
The embassy cables will be released in stages over the next few months. The subject matter of these cables is of such importance, and the geographical spread so broad, that to do otherwise would not do this material justice.
The cables show the extent of US spying on its allies and the UN; turning a blind eye to corruption and human rights abuse in “client states”; backroom deals with supposedly neutral countries; lobbying for US corporations; and the measures US diplomats take to advance those who have access to them.
This document release reveals the contradictions between the US’s public persona and what it says behind closed doors – and shows that if citizens in a democracy want their governments to reflect their wishes, they should ask to see what’s going on behind the scenes.
Every American schoolchild is taught that George Washington – the country’s first President – could not tell a lie. If the administrations of his successors lived up to the same principle, today’s document flood would be a mere embarrassment. Instead, the US Government has been warning governments — even the most corrupt — around the world about the coming leaks and is bracing itself for the exposures.
The full set consists of 251,287 documents, comprising 261,276,536 words (seven times the size of “The Iraq War Logs”, the world’s previously largest classified information release).
The cables cover from 28th December 1966 to 28th February 2010 and originate from 274 embassies, consulates and diplomatic missions.
peej
Carissa
bostonboomer
ecocatwoman
mablue2
Mama Lopez
peggysue22
quixote
skydancingguestblogger
Mona (aka Wonk the Vote)
Sky Dancing 
yum these are good pork chops 😆
According to Wiki Leaks Central, they are being hawked and it appears they shut it down (locked it up), and The Gaurdian’s David Leigh also acknowledged the cyber attack and mentions that those given the files will publish the information even if the site goes down.
The attack I believe is why some started putting up the information earlier than they said they would.
What say you all?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/191130
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks?CMP=twt_gu
This is great way to review the cables…Only I wonder if they are giving us all on US opinion of Gordon.
And this cable: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/225319 wow…
I just had to share this joke, albeit, I realize the seriousness of the cables, but we the ‘little people’ have utter disgust for the Naked Body Scanning.
lol! That’s great!
lolsob
I have to admit, I laughed. And then I started to weep. Has our government always been this way? I must assume it’s so.
How pathetic our country is in actually embodying the ideals upon which it was built. How bloody pathetic.
“So you say you want a revolution…”
The cables also contain a fresh American intelligence assessment of Iran’s missile program,” The Times reports. “They reveal for the first time that the United States believes that Iran has obtained advanced missiles from North Korea that could let it strike at Western European capitals and Moscow and help it develop more formidable long-range ballistic missiles.”
Is all this Wikileaks hoopla kabuki to sell us on an Iranian war??? The NYTimes involvement makes me suspicious of just that . Strike Moscow? Aren’t they supporting N. Korea in the current mess over there? If there was actual evidence of this, it would not have to be “leaked ” in this fashion. The fact of such missile movements , not how we learn about it, would be front page news. Unless I see something else, imo this is
WMD 2.5..they are evolving…it’s not Blair sounding the 45 min alarm , it’s Wikileaks
What I see the information showing is how, we are set up into wars, without prior due process within the government. Case in point, Bush II and Howard making an agreement to go to war and Howard sending their Navel ships ahead of him getting approval from his ‘Democratically’ elected government. In our case, there are TWO WARS going on with NO declaration of WAR by our government. And yes, Nancy Pelosi took any investigation into WMDs off the table and so no one was held accountable.
Also it shows the influence of other countries in the WARS when they don’t put forth any soldiers to fight said wars, nor FUNDS! Obama’s Cat Commission is willing to cut Social Security and Medicare to fund the continuation of these WARS and maybe the start of another with North Korea.
Should we NOT KNOW? If they want to fund the WARS then PASS A WAR TAX and STOP the Tax breaks for the ULTRA RICH!
Hear, hear WV!
Amen.
Thank you! Now to spend the day deciphering those cables….
Here is the Wiki Leaks Central with all the latest in one spot.
WL Central (Link)
http://wlcentral.org/node/372
This should be very interesting. Thank you and Wikileaks.
I’m actually kind’ve excited. It’s like good gossip and a political thriller all lined up into one big present!!
Funny you should mention ‘gossip’ as the UK papers are noting that the cables included ‘gossip’ within the comments on the official docs. 😯
I wonder which royal family member acted “inappropriately?”
My guess is it’s Prince Harry. He seems to be a wild one!
That was my first thought but in the past via a movie of jewel theft it mentioned a Royal, but it was a female. Also, it didn’t hint a the age of said Royal.
Nah … more likely prince Andrew.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE6AR1AL20101128
Oh, Andrew must be going through his change of life … men can be so cranky at 50 😉
Oh, I thought 50 was the age when they got into buying red sports cars and dating much younger women? Or in Andrew’s case … a “tottie on a yachtie”, lol. 😀
I don’t think I’ll be able to get any work done tomorrow. I plan to read Der Spiegel cover to cover. It looks like there’s some good high level gossip in these leaks. We’re talking here about 2 different successive administrations.
Look at what I just added at the bottom from Greg Mitchell at The Nation. It’s at the UK Guardian and it tells about how this 75 year old Iranian went home to visit his parent’s grave from being in the US since the revolution and was prevented from leaving. He got a horse and two armed guides and crossed the mountains into Turkey. It’s like Hollywood material!! And its in the documents!!!
Now that is a heart-warming story!
That’s how Betty Mahmoody and her daughter got out of Iran. And there is a movie about it. It’s actually the most dangerous route out of Iran, especially when there is snow in the mountains.
Please report back on the 1966 LEAK… as I figure it has to do with MLK or Bobby or some thing there about. Please keep us posted as I have to work part of today and tomorrow.
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/date/1966-12_0.html
it’s out of Buenos Aires and it’s something about “EXTENDED NATIONAL JURISDICTIONS OVER HIGH SEAS”
I’m dying to know what the Obama people said about Gordon Brown and vice versa!
Say, the ‘alleged’ WikiLeaks hawking was to protect us bloggers… 😯
That explains why they are so interested in photoing and groping our privates in airports!
So far I’m not too impressed.
Probably every country tries to spy on other countries at the UN; they just don’t talk about it.
Probably the US military anywhere thinks the UK military is not doing as much anywhere they have joint operations.
I thought everyone knew that Russia has mobsters.
And there’s always some Royal doing something somebody doesn’t like.
What I really don’t like is Hillary getting blamed for Obama and Bush’s messes.
It’s the same as when the unemployment data is bad and released. They used to be Christie Romer out front and now Hilda Solis. Now, bad news and Hillary Clinton is out front. There’s a pattern here.
Yup, I agree!.
Thank you Dak and MaBlue for this compilation of the Wikileaks releases. I’m just getting to read some of this and the links and need to digest it all before I can make any sort of coherent response. But, until then, all I can say is Holy Shite. The merde has not only hit the fan, it is the fan. I cannot say that I’m not worried now about what this will do to international relations. I have mixed feelings about all of this in a general sense before I’ve read most of it. Going back to reading in detail from all the links you provided. Back in a little while to discuss.
Thanks again you guys. Btw, I’m happy that the Guardian and Der Spiegel got the releases, imo, two of the best newpapers still around. The NYT’s not so much. Ironic given that 40 years ago, in a somewhat similar situation they were the go to paper.
Anyway, back to reading.
YW!! It’s great to have a community that can come together and share and discuss things like this in an open environment!!! Every one up page and down sure is helping us all learn more!
Maybe I’m just way out in left field here. I’m not so excited as I am concerned about this “leak.” When Valarie Plame was outted quite a number of good people were killed for their contacts with her. How many more might disappear with this information; how many will be endangered; and where do we go from here?
What is the value? I’m sure there are those who have been up to no good that we’ll learn about, but how does this enhance the security of everyday citizens like you and me?
WV this is what happens when the world, not just the US goes through a full body scan. 😯
I completely understand that. There will be blowback.
Deadly Legacy – Iraq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUDFicLNZ0
Joanelle,
I fully expect a blowback, but I wasn’t aware of the suffering the Iraqi people were going through, nor their children’s medical ailments and their suffering and one has to wonder what sort of medical issues our soldiers will suffer.
After the above report along with the UN’s report, the US withdrew 2/3 of its forces in Iraq, but I have yet to see ONE US news organization report on this story. I would often wonder why we are so hated around the world and once you see reports like that of Journeyman’s you begin to see it is the policy makers and WAR Hawks that are bringing anger and hate upon us along with years of prior funding of the the Taliban when the Russians were in Afghanistan.
The government needs to tell us the truth and we must be willing to look at the truth and yes, I am concerned but more concerned that we have been lied to and not told the truth.
Our soldiers are fighting to get services when they return and have the highest suicide rates, ever recorded and the press pretends that we are not engaged in wars. So, what do we do, when do we do it and will someone be held accountable for the imagined WMDs?
WV – It’s no wonder the people of Iraq hate us – they didn’t even know about the 9/11 attacks on the US – so as far as they are concerned our attacking them was totally unprovoked. Our leaders have wrought unimaginable pain on the Iraqis and we’ve killed over 100,000 of their people. Nothing to be proud of at all.
We shouldn’t have been in Iraq in the first place
9/11 was covered on Iraqi TV the day it happened, and thereafter.
But you’re right, we shouldn’t have been there and we’ve caused terrible pain and suffering to them.
Welp, I cried and cried as I watched this report. Felt the same as when I watched the one years ago about the doctors trying to save people.
Did you note that the commentor said that after shooting the piece, the head doctor at the hospital was gunned down? Wonder who paid to have that happen.
Why is there depleted uranium in weapons anyway? Is it a way to have our Nukes without the calories or something? What the hell is wrong with our government and our military leaders that they think this is ok? Why is ‘collateral damage’ so acceptable?
I suppose probably for the same reasons it’s acceptable to send American citizens for strip searches and full body pat downs. The powers that Be simply don’t recognize us as human. We are all collateral damage in one way or another.
Ok, gotta go blow my nose and wash my face and eyes. Screen is blurry.
Depleted uranium is extremely dense – about 70% denser than lead. For this reason, it’s used both in armor plating and in in armor-piercing ammunition. It’s not particularly radioactive, but it is quite toxic.
It was first used by the Soviet Union in the 1970s, and shortly thereafter by NATO. Pretty much every major military power in the world uses it these days.
Thanks for the reply! So basically it’s not necessarily radioactive poison (although some of the people in the film were showing radioactive decontamination of contested hot spots in the war), but just poison poison that’s mutilating these children?
Not that it’s any better, but maybe the parents have a chance of having normal kids if they are moved out of the poison zone?
Well, it is radioactive, it’s just not extremely radioactive like radium (for example). Since it’s primarily an alpha emitter, the main danger is from inhalation or ingestion (alpha particles don’t travel far, but they do lots of damage at extremely short range). The easiest way to locate contamination in an area would be to detect the radiation. Some of the effects cited in the film probably are radiological, others may be due to chemical toxicity. Not all of it (or even most of it) may be due to DU – there are a lot of toxic substances used in weapons and ordnance.
When a DU round impacts, it’s inevitably going to produce dust and vapor which can be inhaled or inadvertently ingested. That’s probably the biggest danger. You don’t want U238 inside you.
Has anybody here heard about Secret Internet Protocol Router Networks (SIPRNet) before?
Btw, it looks like we’re dealing with a Black Swan here. SIPRNet was apparently protected against attacks from outside, but no one seriously thought about attacks from inside. People are already speculating that Bradley Manning may not have been the only leaker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRNet
thanks!!! More James Bond music please!!!
A little music and …
Good to see you Ralph!
No, I’ll have to look into that. I can’t imagine Manning had access to all of this though.
Looks like usage is not hard to get. I would be quite surprised if all this was accessible though. It should have been compartmented off.
http://www.rjhresearch.com/SecurityGuide/S1class/Siprnet.htm
I think we have a situation where some persons within the government, in high positions saw something that they couldn’t or wouldn’t go along with due to their wiring (beliefs) and it is more than likely a person well connected, thus the release of the 1966 cables (clearing their minds).
I bet Manning will be the “Oswald” of all these cable leaks…sure he acted alone…I doubt it.
The kid simply doesn’t have the security clearance for accessing hard copy cables.
I have been saying this all along, as he doesn’t possess the skills needed and the Guardian has reported that the cables were ‘HARD COPIES’ and carried out, and that it has to be some high level person. Someone saw something that finally broke the camel’s back and they were no longer going along with the ‘insiders’ only governance and so they spilled the beans.
My guess is that it is more than two persons and that the REAL secret is too shocking for us to know, otherwise Assange and company would have put that out already. So, my guess is, that the insurance file is what holds the key as to why the Leakers leaked the information…
What do you think MaBlue?
Not MABlue, but I think you may be on to something. NO way a low level person got access to all this stuff. No way. And if it were hard copies, well… the mind boggles.
Overall, let’s hope the truth will set us free. Maybe a little transparency will help matters in the end. It can’t be good for us all to go around deceiving each other and countries may be in the same boat.
Hope this isn’t too OT but Glenn Greenwald has a great piece on the Portland FBI/Terror case.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/11/28/fbi
I saw that earlier. Every one seems to think the FBI there is up to something.
Cablegate is officially online…
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/
Yeah, just added that up top … fascinating!!!
did you see that over 8,000 of them come from the SOS? The summary statistics alone are interesting!
Yaowza!!!
Who dump so much info on this guy’s lap? And Why?
It just so reminds me of watching the Pentagon Papers being dropped when I was a kid. I remember watching Dad watching David Brinkley talking about it. I wonder if the CIA will bring into Assange’s psychiatrist’s office next?
Yeah, I am really finding the ones with Russia interesting, since I have family that lives in Georgia…(the country)
okay, that explains the Minkoff now!!!
Actually it is from my favorite book,Confederacy of Dunces, that “Minkoff Minx” is what Ignatius calls Mryna Minkoff…
However, I have a cousin that was in school when Russia invaded Georgia. (She is only 7) Bombing hit the school, and she still has bad dreams about it. Which is understandable.
oh, right … I remember that!! D’oh!!!
NYT has exchange of letters between Julian Assange and U.S. govt. He asked them to highlight instances of concern in the materials they were reviewing.
http://documents.nytimes.com/letters-between-wikileaks-and-gov
Summary from the Guardian:
The administration argues that the leaked cables will endanger lives and national security. Assange responds by saying that the “supposed risks are fanciful” and argues that the US is more concerned to “suppress evidence of human rights abuses and criminal behaviour”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/nov/28/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-live-blog
Spencer Ackerman makes fun of the U.S.’s weak response to wikileaks:
http://attackerman.firedoglake.com/2010/11/28/uncompelling-wikileak-responses/
I’m becoming obsessed with SIPRNet
How did Bradley Manning get the high level clearance here and who vetted him? How was he able o sneak out anything?
A SECRET clearance is fairly easy to get. If Manning worked in IT for the Army, he would probably have done work on systems which were on SIPRNet. Your question about how he got access to information which I would assume would be compartmented and then got it off site is a darn good one.
You find a SECRET clearance easy to get?
I’ve had a clearance done a couple of years ago and I don’t think there was anything those guys left out. I don’t think I could accept another one because my last one has expired. Not even if I get paid a gazillion $$$$.
Compared to the clearance I had, yes it’s easy to get. It took about 6-7 mos of FBI and whoever investigations and a couple of visits to a “cleared” psychiatrist to get mine done. Clearance has been expired for years and I’m still not technically supposed to leave the US without permission.
Yikes!
I don’t think I’ll ever do anything that requires any type of clearance again. I thought mine was bad, yours just scared the bejeezus out of me.
Bradley Manning was a long-time hacker, so he knew how to get into secret files even if he didn’t have legal access.
Huh?
Did you guys see this?
NYT worked ‘several weeks’ on leaked cables; WikiLeaks wasn’t direct source for docs
Wow! So, there another group of leakers running around?
didn’t read that … that’s really strange
So much for Bradley Manning being the sole source 🙂
ayup, that’s what it says to me
It has to go back to the Obama Administration clamping down on the TNYT and therefore, they were given the material not directly from WikiLeaks, but it originated there.
Very interesting, MABlue.
Since this thread is getting a little long, I’ve added a new one up top with some of the latest reports.
They’reall having a lot of fun here too, in Italy, discussing wikileaks, and worrying whether some unfortunate remarks might lead to problems between Italy, Turkey and Iran- LOL!!!
I think a lot of folks will have egg on their faces!!!
Joanelle says:
November 28, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Maybe I’m just way out in left field here. I’m not so excited as I am concerned about this “leak.” When Valarie Plame was outted quite a number of good people were killed for their contacts with her. How many more might disappear with this information; how many will be endangered; and where do we go from here?
What is the value? I’m sure there are those who have been up to no good that we’ll learn about, but how does this enhance the security of everyday citizens like you and me?
WV this is what happens when the world, not just the US goes through a full body scan.
Reply
i agree compltety this dose no good its not something that should be celebrated or treat this guy like some sort of hero . its also dose no good to our country and if people dose lose thrie lives over this i hope WikiLeaks is held responsible for there deaths
I’ve had similar thoughts. I guess only time will tell the good or the harm WikiLeaks will do.
I remember my dad and mom discussing that sort of thing during the drop of the Pentagon papers, but that really shortened the Vietnam War and I believe it saved many lives. I’m thinking this will do the same thing.
DK this wont shorten the war if anything it will do just the oposite .
That’s what folks said about the Pentagon Papers too. I’m really seeing parallels in the release of the two sets of documents.
ok DK in your opinion how did the Pentagon Papers shortened the Vietnam War.???
Every one realized that it was not motivated by what the government had said and that they had been lying to us. The vast majority of people saw this in the reports in the Pentagon papers. They saw how we had been played. It forced Nixon to end it. They brought the troops home.
I agree.
It put mothers in the streets protesting. The government didn’t care about us DFHs but the mothers got their attention.
i guess this is going to be one of those times we are going to have to agree to disagree
DK i have a question if this new info that WikiLeaks releases cost just one American solider his or her would it be worth it .????
What if not releasing costs the life of one soldier?
its very clear how this info could and most probley has cost a lifes .
so tell me how is it going to save a life.
I don’t buy your assumption. It’s not very clear at all. It looks like its uncovered some unsavory things that might have otherwise led to expansion of wars; like in Yemen and Iran.
I really don’t agree with you here at all and nothing you’re saying is a convincing argument to me. Saying it “probably” has cost lives isn’t proof of anything but your opinion. Bring me some firm evidence that it has cost lives if you think it has because it’s not self-evident to me. It’s conjecture on your part.
DK that’s right its my opinion. just as your last comments are yours i respect your opinion. as i would hope you respect mine. its good that we can agree to disagree and debate these issues don’t you think?
yes, I agree with that. I’m just saying if you’re going to make a statement like you did, then you should bring some proof. The stuff’s been posted for less than 24 hours and where’s your evidence that some one has died as a result?
That’s not an attack on your opinion. That’s asking for evidence for your argument, Bman.
Boogieman7167,
One thing that sickened me, in the first release, was how Pakistan had gone into business with the US dollars sent to fight ‘terrorism’ and was actively engaging the Taliban to attack our soldiers with our own money! Sheesh, and we had just upped the money to 7 BILLION for the next 2 to 5 years (I think) in the belief that they were HELPING US!
Exposing the Pakistan issue, and realizing that Biden KNEW this before going over there to let them know they were getting BILLIONS more to continue on, defies logic and common reality. Why would we support someone that is helping the BAD guys to kill our people and continue the destabilization of a country?
Then the most recent fiasco of our TOP MILITARY/ & Administration making deals with a man purported to be the head of the TALIBAN who turned out to be an impostor making us look like Royal fools and this person was briefed (I believe).
In all honesty our soldiers are getting the short end of the stick, in terms of multiple tours, denied care, denied benefits (PTSD…when they went to D.C. it wasn’t covered recently), and are suffering from the highest suicide rates of any war. The soldiers are having their health care cut, benefits reduced and their families are without health care…see Obama blocking the Public Option could have benefited the soldiers and their families. How many stories don’t we read about soldiers being in one state and their families in another because that is the ONLY place they can receive treatment! When soldiers are injured they need their families close by to help out and support them, the Public Option would have allowed them to receive treatment close to their homes and their loved ones.
George Bush II is busy making millions off his book and isn’t giving any of it to relief services for the soldiers who now can’t get benefits, due to a WARS he started and those WMDS that were NEVER THERE!
If they want to continue the WARS then pass a WAR TAX, and leave Social Security and Medicare alone.
I always thought that “helping the bad guys kill our people” was treason.