Monday Threads: An Open Mind is a Terrible Thing to Lose
Posted: June 24, 2013 Filed under: morning reads | Tags: atheists and morality, conservative minds ignore consequences, fbi and justifiable shootings 102 Comments
Good Morning!
I’ve often wondered what it is about some people that makes them wind up so damned narrow-minded. They seem eager to embrace anything that validates their belief system no matter how whacky and far-fetched or disproven. They are not tolerant of people or ideas that don’t fit their idea of correctness. Indeed, they seem to go out of their way to avoid data, evidence, and frankly, reality. This is all in the hopes of pushing away modernity or just plain change. I suppose this is a subject more aptly discussed by Doctor BostonBoomer the Psychologist than Doctor Dakinikat the Economist. However, these headlines just got me in the mood to ask one big question: What makes people feel so smug about their beliefs and beliefs systems even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are just plan wrong minded and bigoted?
First, here is a story from Raw Story that involves psychology and studies that look at the question directly. The story is based on a morality study that finds conservatives show a ‘general insensitivity to consequences’.
Research published June in Social Psychological and Personality Science suggests that religious individuals and political conservatives think about moral issues in a fundamentally different way than liberals.
The study by Jared Piazza of the University of Pennsylvania and Paulo Sousa of Queen’s University Belfast, which included a total of 688 participants, found religious individuals and political conservatives consistently invoked deontological ethics. In other words, they judged the morality of actions based on a universal rule such as, “You should not kill.” Political liberals, on the other hand, consistently invoked consequentialist ethics, meaning they judged the morality of actions based on their positive or negative outcomes.
“Does being religious or being conservative promote a rule-based ethic or does having a rule-based ethic promote religiosity and/or conservatism?” Piazza told PsyPost. “This question is difficult to answer definitively without running a longitudinal study, since you cannot really manipulate religious orientation, or being in possession of a deontological orientation, and then look at the consequences.”
The study’s cross-sectional methodology makes it impossible to say anything more than religion and conservativism are associated with deontological ethics. However, Piazza said prior research suggested that being religious underlies the adherence to deontological ethics
“I think it is more likely that being religious — and being religious in a particular way — is what promotes deontological commitments, and not the other way around,” he told PsyPost. “In a recent unpublished study I conducted with my colleague Justin Landy at Penn, we found that it is a particular sub-class of religious individuals that are strongly opposed to consequentialist thinking. Specifically, it was religious individuals who believe that morality is founded upon divine authority or divine commands, and that moral truths are not obtained via human intuition or reason, who were strong deontologists (i.e., they refused to find various rule violations as permissible even when the consequences were better as a result).”
“This suggests that not all religious individuals are non-consequentialists; that is, religion does not necessarily promote a deontological ethic, though many religious institutions do promote such an orientation,” Piazza added. “Instead, it may be that people who are skeptical about the capacity for human beings to know right from wrong in the absence of divine revelation that tend towards a rule-based morality. Though this begs the question of why some religious individuals tend to see morality in terms of honoring divine commands, while others accept that human intuition or reason may be an equally, if not more reliable, foundation. This is an interesting and complex psychological question which we don’t currently have an answer to.”
Is this what makes the right wing so impervious to reality and evidence? And is that why the left wing seems enamored of a guy that just handed over state secrets to the Russians and the Chinese?
One of the great right wing myths explored here anecdotely is that that atheists, for example, cannot be compassionate or charitable because those are ethics that only spring from the fear of some kind of magical supreme being and threat of his afterlife hell realm. Yet, studies show that people with little to know religion do good deeds in abundance. In fact, big media is responsible for promoting this nonsense. Remember when Wolf Blitzer asked an atheist if her ‘faith’ in a god got her through the experience of a horrible tornado? Now, Time Magazines thinks atheists ignore human disaster too.
As part of his reporting, Klein joined one of the disaster relief groups and worked at a site damaged by the Oklahoma tornadoes… and that’s when he wrote this:
… there was an occupying army of relief workers, led by local first responders, exhausted but still humping it a week after the storm, church groups from all over the country — funny how you don’t see organized groups of secular humanists giving out hot meals — and there in the middle of it all, with a purposeful military swagger, were the volunteers from Team Rubicon.
Wow. My jaw dropped while reading that because it’s absolutely not true.
Klein took a cheap shot at atheists for not doing the relief work that churches — with all the personnel and financial advantages they have at their disposal — were doing even though we were often working right alongside them! He made the same mistake that Minister David Brassfield did (though at least Brassfield eventually offered a semi-apology).
Klein is simply lying out of his ass. A simple Google search would’ve turned up a number of ways atheists helped in the wake of the Oklahoma tornadoes. But since Klein was too lazy to do it, I’ll do it for him:
- More than 4,300 people donated more than $120,000 for the family of Rebecca Vitsmun (she promised to donate to
charity whatever money she doesn’t need).
- Foundation Beyond Belief raised over $45,000 for Operation USA and the Regional Food Bank of Oklahoma.
- Atheists Giving Aid raised over $18,000 that will be given to local relief groups in Moore, Oklahoma and directly to families that need help.
- Members of the FreeOK atheist group helped families who needed wreckage removed from their property:
- Local atheist groups such as the Oklahoma Atheists, Atheist Community of Tulsa, the Lawton Area Secular Society, Norman Naturalism Group, and the Oklahoma State Secular Organization have organized volunteers, resources, and blood drives.
- Organizers of the FreeOK conference going on this weekend held a literacy drive yesterday to “benefit the schools affected” by the tornadoes.
Is that enough proof that atheists, too, were (and still are) helping out in the aftermath of the tornadoes?
Maybe Klein didn’t know any of this was going on because, as Tancredi points out, “these [Humanist] groups have no tax exempt status and therefore can’t exactly afford to have the t-shirts for everyone to wear so that you know when they are out in force during a volunteer effort.”
Another deeply engrained myth in the minds of law and order conservatives is that all law and enforcement is benign despite overwhelming evidence in many cases to the contrary. Democracy Now! investigates the License to Kill given to the FBI in this country and there are some astounding statistics. Agents involved in fatal shootings have not cleared every single time since 1993. Are all those shootings really justifiable?
TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
JUAN GONZALEZ: As President Obama prepares to nominate James Comey today to head the FBI, the agency is facing new questions over how it handles shootings involving FBI agents. A new look at the FBI’s internal destinations has found the bureau has cleared its agents in every single shooting incident dating back two decades. According to the New York Times, from 1993 until today, the FBI shootings were deemed justified in the fatal shootings of 70 people and the wounding of 80 others.
Out of 289 shootings that are found to be deliberate, no agent was disciplined except for letters of censure in five cases. Even in a case where the bureau paid a shooting victim over $1 million to settle a lawsuit, the internal review did not find the agent who shot the man culpable.
AMY GOODMAN: The issue of FBI accountability has recently re-emerged following last month’s fatal shooting of Ibragim Todashev during questioning by agents in Orlando, Florida. A Chechen native, Todashev who was interrogated over his ties to one of the suspects in the Boston Marathon bombing. The Washington Post and several TV news organizations reported he was unarmed, citing unnamed law enforcement officials.
On Thursday, I spoke to Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Charlie Savage, the Washington correspondent for The New York Timeswho co-wrote the recent article called, “The FBI Deemed Agents Faultless in 150 Shootings.” I began by asking Charlie Savage to lay out what he found.
Then, there are of course, all the lies pushed by the fetus fetishists to support all kinds of wierdly NAZI like invasions into women’s bodies. How do small government touting conservatives reconcile this kind of government intrusion? Corporations are people my friend, but women are not?
HR 1797 is titled the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, even though scientific studies, and meta-analysis of said studies, have found no evidence of fetal pain until the third trimester. Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) proposed the legislation, despite the fact that a 20-week abortion ban passed in his state was recently ruled unconstitutional. Grounding the bill in faux science is no surprise, given Franks’ role in founding the Arizona Family Research Institute, a group linked to the notorious Focus on the Family, a devoutly anti-choice (and anti-LGBTQ rights) organization that promotes an anti-science fringe agenda such as teaching “Creationism” and abstinence-only education. As a young politician, Franks reportedly donned a tie tack in the shape of fetal feet.
As the bill was furiously debated in the House Tuesday, hardly a minute went by without a mention of Gosnell. Gosnell, of course, is the infamous Philadelphia doctor recently convicted of the first-degree murder of three babies, voluntary manslaughter of a Bhutanese immigrant named Karnamaya Mongar, and 21 counts of abortion past the legal gestational date (24 weeks in Pennsylvania), among other charges.
“The trial of Kermit Gosnell exposed late abortions for what they really are: relocated infanticide,” Franks in a statement about the bill.
His statement echoes anti-choice rhetoric surrounding the Gosnell case; if Gosnell’s victims had been in a womb, they say, his actions would have been legal—or, as Kirstin Powers put it, it’s “merely a matter of geography.”
But it’s not accurate.
Gosnell was convicted of involuntary manslaughter of Mongar and of first-degree murder of three babies, referred to as Babies A, C, and D in the grand jury report and throughout the trial. From the grand jury report, describing Baby A: “His 17-year old mother was almost 30 weeks pregnant.” Baby C, according to the grand jury report, was “at least 28 weeks of gestational age.” The grand jury did not know the exact gestational age of Baby D, though experts used a review of neonatology charts to conclude that the age was “consistent with viability.” In other words, each of these were third trimester pregnancies.
Gosnell’s “procedures” were illegal under current law. A 20-week post-fertilization ban would not make them any more illegal. If passed into law, HR 1797, or any other 20-week ban, would not prevent another Gosnell.
Meanwhile, abortions performed in weeks 20 through 24 are statistically rare. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s latest abortion surveillance report, based on data from 2009, 91.7 percent of abortions were performed at or before 13 weeks gestation. Only 1.3 percent of abortions occurred at or after 21 weeks’ gestation.
They even invented a non existent procedure–“partial birth abortion”–to try to chip away at a woman’s autonomy and right to make health 
decisions impacting her health and well-being. It just always amazes me that none of these folks ever see through their lies.
I am going to end with the offering of an economist Miles Kimble of a quote by John Stuart Mills. It’s a quote from an essay entitled: A Remedy for the One-Sidedness of the Human Mind.
People are drawn to simplifications. And therein lies danger. John Stuart Mill writes about how that danger can be reduced by including in the intellectual ecosystem even those who are off-base in their judgments. The following is from On Liberty, Chapter II: “Of the Liberty of Thought and Discussion,” paragraphs 34 and 35:
It still remains to speak of one of the principal causes which make diversity of opinion advantageous, and will continue to do so until mankind shall have entered a stage of intellectual advancement which at present seems at an incalculable distance. We have hitherto considered only two possibilities: that the received opinion may be false, and some other opinion, consequently, true; or that, the received opinion being true, a conflict with the opposite error is essential to a clear apprehension and deep feeling of its truth. But there is a commoner case than either of these; when the conflicting doctrines, instead of being one true and the other false, share the truth between them; and the nonconforming opinion is needed to supply the remainder of the truth, of which the received doctrine embodies only a part. Popular opinions, on subjects not palpable to sense, are often true, but seldom or never the whole truth. They are a part of the truth; sometimes a greater, sometimes a smaller part, but exaggerated, distorted, and disjoined from the truths by which they ought to be accompanied and limited. Heretical opinions, on the other hand, are generally some of these suppressed and neglected truths, bursting the bonds which kept them down, and either seeking reconciliation with the truth contained in the common opinion, or fronting it as enemies, and setting themselves up, with similar exclusiveness, as the whole truth. The latter case is hitherto the most frequent, as, in the human mind, one-sidedness has always been the rule, and many-sidedness the exception. Hence, even in revolutions of opinion, one part of the truth usually sets while another rises. Even progress, which ought to superadd, for the most part only substitutes, one partial and incomplete truth for another; improvement consisting chiefly in this, that the new fragment of truth is more wanted, more adapted to the needs of the time, than that which it displaces. Such being the partial character of prevailing opinions, even when resting on a true foundation, every opinion which embodies somewhat of the portion of truth which the common opinion omits, ought to be considered precious, with whatever amount of error and confusion that truth may be blended. No sober judge of human affairs will feel bound to be indignant because those who force on our notice truths which we should otherwise have overlooked, overlook some of those which we see. Rather, he will think that so long as popular truth is one-sided, it is more desirable than otherwise that unpopular truth should have one-sided asserters too; such being usually the most energetic, and the most likely to compel reluctant attention to the fragment of wisdom which they proclaim as if it were the whole.
Thus, in the eighteenth century, when nearly all the instructed, and all those of the uninstructed who were led by them, were lost in admiration of what is called civilization, and of the marvels of modern science, literature, and philosophy, and while greatly overrating the amount of unlikeness between the men of modern and those of ancient times, indulged the belief that the whole of the difference was in their own favour; with what a salutary shock did the paradoxes of Rousseau explode like bombshells in the midst, dislocating the compact mass of one-sided opinion, and forcing its elements to recombine in a better form and with additional ingredients. Not that the current opinions were on the whole farther from the truth than Rousseau’s were; on the contrary, they were nearer to it; they contained more of positive truth, and very much less of error. Nevertheless there lay in Rousseau’s doctrine, and has floated down the stream of opinion along with it, a considerable amount of exactly those truths which the popular opinion wanted; and these are the deposit which was left behind when the flood subsided. The superior worth of simplicity of life, the enervating and demoralizing effect of the trammels and hypocrisies of artificial society, are ideas which have never been entirely absent from cultivated minds since Rousseau wrote; and they will in time produce their due effect, though at present needing to be asserted as much as ever, and to be asserted by deeds, for words, on this subject, have nearly exhausted their power.
Be wary of Occam’s Razor when it comes to moral issues. Be open to new evidence. Be aware that things are not always as they seem or you want them to be and above all, realize that we are all the same while being uniquely us. I am still awaiting the decision that says the United States recognizes the full humanity and rights of its GLBT citizens. I am praying that Trayvon Martin’s family will see justice. I would like to see the FBI truly investigate the shooting deaths that resulted from their hunting the perpetrators of the Boston Marathon Bombings and think about what it does to justice in the name of security.. We should be a country of laws that create an open path to justice and not one of closed minds that suppress evidence and diversity.
What’s on your reading and blogging list today?
peej
Carissa
bostonboomer
ecocatwoman
mablue2
Mama Lopez
peggysue22
quixote
skydancingguestblogger
Mona (aka Wonk the Vote)
Sky Dancing 
Edward Snowden’s flight to Cuba took off, but he wasn’t on it. His whereabouts are unknown at the moment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23025810
Here’s his empty seat.
From Yahoo’s story, Gets funkier every day.
Oh yeah……….
Perfect, Beata….
C&L: Texas Legislator Claims Rape Kits Prevent Pregnancy During Marathon Legislative Session
Perfect example of Dak’s point. And this idiot legislator is a woman.
WTF? I swear we need to toss Texas over to Mexico.
The stupidity of these people is unbelievable.
How much of this can be laid at the feet of print and broadcast ‘journalists’ afraid to or paid not to tell the truth?
I’m doing a load of laundry and the dishes are rinsed off and in the washer so I got time to surf the tubes. What about the parent working 8 hours, doing house work and involved in their children’s sports, band or other club activities? The media fails miserably.
Without our corrupt and complicit media, the current political environment could not exist for one election cycle.
George Zimmerman’s defense team began its opening statement by telling a knock-knock joke.
The jury didn’t laugh.
Oh my gawdddddd
Great question JJ………..what makes people feel so smug……. you answered it……….religion, and wealth (corporation are people)……….but the wealthy women aren’t paying attention to the impact of these laws that republicans are promoting……………….as BB said the outcome will be costly for generations to come. And they are the ones we have got to get to voting booth.
Funny cause conservatives are usually pro-death penalty, pro-war, “eye for eye,” etc. And here, little ol’ delusional idealist pinko hairy feminist me is not for these things…
And honestly the left is full of women-haters…the older I get, the more I realize how every other social justice cause has more priority on the left than silly old wimminz rights…that its not just the underbelly even, that it is quite mainstreamed on both the left and right to put women everywhere but first on a list of priorities…I really would like to see a research study about that 🙂
Right or Left, Bros will be Bros.
Dak your first link, “morality study… doesn’t link to anything.
Fixed it!
This is a great blog, Dak. the part about Mills’s thought is great, and info on atheists service is wildly unknown.
Thx!
TBogg: Those Are People Who Died, Died
Even if Hastings were suicided–which there is no evidence for–tampering with cars is not the CIA/FBI modus operandi. If he had been shot in the head in a hotel room maybe….
Joe Cannon and some of his commenters seem to have slipped around the bend some 🙂
I noticed.
The Supremes Punt!
CNN: Supreme Court sidesteps big ruling on Texas affirmative action
A red panda escaped from the National Zoo and there are tons of jokes on twitter about his being on a flight to Havana, etc.
His name is Rusty and he’s said to be “friendly and mild-mannered.” I hope he’s OK.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/red-panda-missing-at-national-zoo/2013/06/24/350e8b4c-dcdd-11e2-85de-c03ca84cb4ef_story.html
Jeez, he’s so cute. I hope he’ found safe and sound.
I sure hope so.
NYT: For Snowden, a Hasty Exit Started With Pizza Inside a Hong Kong Hideout
Snowden’s Hong Kong lawyer thinks he’s just a naive kid who didn’t understand what was gonna come at him.
No kidding.
Holy shit! Snowden admits that he took the Booz Allen job specifically so he could steal NSA secrets.
And he was working with Greenwald two months before he got the job. What does that say?
Screencap of Greenwald’s tweets about working w/Snowden before anyone else.
It also makes Greenwald an accomplice if I am not mistaken but then … where are our lawyers?
I’ve been wondering if Greenwald would get charged…
It also makes Greenwald an accomplice if I am not mistaken but then … where are our lawyers?
looks like some kind of plot to steal US secrets
Hate to think about how you’d prove that without testimony from some another journalists or Snowden, who wouldn’t be believed. Shredders may already be at work on any documents if there are anything useful.
CNBC’s Andrew Ross Sorkin: ‘I’d Almost Arrest Glenn Greenwald’ http://colm.es/14m2eKo #p2
There’s an interview with greenwald at democracy now about this … it’s a hoot
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/24/cnbc-host-id-almost-arrest-glenn-greenwald-for-helping-nsa-leaker/
Maybe David Gregory’s question to Greenwald wasn’t so bad?
Okay … that’s espionage then … sheesh
No whistle blowing there, pure espionage.
yup … definitely espionage….
This guy is either monumentally stupid or insane. He’s done nothing but sabotage himself since he started giving interviews.
No wonder he’s scrambling for refuge in all the wrong countries.
Yup, I just wonder if he was so monumentally stupid as BB says, than how much of his actions was his own doing and not prodded by others…
He’s probably smart about computers. Real life, not so much.
I imagine he believed everything NSA was doing was illegal but it turns out to be legal under the current laws, That’s why he hasn’t amounted to anything, once you remove the hype and overwrought reporting.
On the other hand, what he has given China and Russia may be really damaging.
is all of the above a choice?
All of the above seems correct,
Spies are not usually favored with political asylum.
Fucking criminal from the beginning.
U.S. Supreme Court rules on Hurricane Katrina judgment against Army Corps of Engineers http://ow.ly/mkRrQ
whoopie! Damages!!!
Hurray…
Yay!
The 5th Circuit decision stands. Oh well.
yeah …. just read that …
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1268209/exclusive-snowden-sought-booz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa
EXCLUSIVE: Snowden sought Booz Allen job to gather evidence on NSA surveillance
Question would be, what communications did he have with the journalists between January and the meeting in Hong Kong? Did they tell him what would constitute proof of his claims in order to help him steal the right documentation? Did they know he didn’t have it at the initial contact?
The progs are still defending Snowden on twitter. Just a few have changed their tunes, like David Atkins at Hullaballoo. If nothing else he’s hurt the cause of whistleblowers everywhere.
You were completely right when you said it was the various “Bot” types who were in love with the doofus. Easily fooled, hero worshiping people looking for a messiah.
Some of them are applauding his getting the job to deliberately steal docs.
The Progressive Change Campaign Committee has raised over $24K for Snowden’s legal defense fund from their small donors.
If Ecuador turns down his asylum request, where does he go next? The Duchy of Grand Fenwick?
Just about …. I’d say Iran or North Korea!!!
Maybe he could bunk with Assange in an Ecuadoran embassy?
UK already said they won’t let him into the country. Oh, sorry, you meant another embassy. As of now Russians seem to be toying with Snowden. Remember how he said he had access to names of every undercover agent and CIA outpost?
I sure hope he lied about that!
Russia isn’t letting him go just yet according to LA Times.
Hahahahaha
Doesn’t Ecuador have to worry about Obama sending in the drones?
It would have been easier to get rid of him using a person in Hong Kong.
I was kidding.
Uh, so was I? 🙂
Sorry Ralph. I’m a little out of it. I’m into day 2 of a a four-day heat wave. I got almost no sleep last night.
That’s right, you don’t have AC. Last time you went to the movies during the hottest part of the day…any relief like that at least?
Later Blue Bland………..1930 – 2013
Thanks. RIP.
Good news! Rusty the red panda has been found near the zoo.
wonderful!!!! guess he just needed a walkabout
Great news!
Fertilizer plant explodes in Indiana. One reported dead.
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/article/Sheriff-s-deputy-confirms-1-dead-in-explosion-at-4619117.php
Bummer. That’s the shortest story I’ve ever seen, Must be brand new.
It happened at 1:30PM today. I’ll keep looking. That is in northern Indiana. A few more links.
http://www.trust.org/item/20130624195327-r468b/?source%20=%20hpbreaking
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/24/ind-plant-explosion/2453463/
Still not much detail.
Photo of plant
http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/top-news/One-Dead-Two-Injured-In-NW-Indiana-Fertilizer-Plant-Explosion-212810241.html
At least the whole thing didn’t go boom.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/one-percent-wealthy-dominate-2012-elections-congress
6 Mind-Blowing Stats on How 1 Percent of the 1 Percent Now Dominate Our Elections
That’s the disclosed donations. Think about all the dark money added to that share.
NYT: Berlusconi Sentenced to 7 Years in Sex Case
‘
This is in addition to earlier convictions for tax fraud. Unfortunately, he still has parliamentary immunity.
I haven’t been around here much so if this has been brought up previously I apologize for the repetition but it bears repeating. The NSA should not be using contractors nor should high level security clearance be done by contractors. This is all a result of the right wing’s insistence on shrinking government. Outsource! they say. Government is inefficient! The job with be done better by the private sector! they say. The Snowden affair has shown a spotlight on just how insane it is to be outsourcing vital government services. It’s time to undo some of the damage that has been done since the Reagan administration. And I’ll include Clinton in that too. He did his share of privatizing.
That’s the truth!
TPM: Greenwald: I Didn’t Even Know Snowden’s Name Until He Was In Hong Kong
There’s lying somewhere cuse this is different from what was said earlier.
He claimed on twitter that he and Laura Poitras were working with Snowden beginning in February. I posted the screencatch above at 12:05PM.
Greenwald is going to have to get a lot more specific at some point.
Laura Poitras said she began working with him in January in a story she published in Salon. Greenwald may be a bit concerned legally and covering his ass.
Here’s more from Greg Sargent. Greenwald claims they just talked about how to communicate securely until Greenwald flew to Hong Kong to meet Snowden. In that tweet, Greenwald was bragging because he wanted it to be known that he was approached before Barton Gellman of the WaPo.
It seems odd to me that he would agree to report about leaked classified documents without even doing a background check and learning where Snowden had worked and for how long. I’ll be interested to see how other “investigative journalists” react to this.
Damn, I put this in my post tonight. But it was posted late.
Poitras article in Salon
Salon: How we broke the NSA story
Laura Poitras from June. Greenwald may have just been bragging earlier without reason. Maybe ego boosts,