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Joe Biden: “I have had it up to here with that notion of 47 percent.”

Posted: October 11, 2012 | Author: | Filed under: 2012 presidential campaign, U.S. Economy, U.S. Military, U.S. Politics | Tags: , , , , |44 Comments

I thought Joe Biden won the debate tonight because he was able to bring Mitt Romney’s 47% comments up and elaborate on them in an emotional way at least three times. It might have been four, I’m not sure. He said that Romney was talking about Biden’s parents, the soldiers serving overseas, and so on. He rubbed Ryan’s face in it and on top of that he brought up Ryan’s 30% of Americans are takers comments.

I also loved the way Biden focused on Mitt Romney, not Paul Ryan. He brought everything back to Romney and the issues Romney has committed himself to.

I thought Biden hit all the right notes, and he wasn’t afraid to be expressive. Ryan, on the other hand, mouthed talking points and fell back on his usual verbal tics, like “What we’re saying is…” I thought Ryan was especially bad when he was talking about Iran, Afghanistan, and Syria. He looked like a fool claiming that the Iranians already have five nuclear weapons, and Biden spell out the facts pretty clearly. On Syria, Ryan offered no specifics about what Romney and he would do differently, and on Afghanistan he was simply incoherent.

I’m sorry I missed the open threads. I watched the debate with my brother and sister-in-law. But I plan to read all the comments tonight and tomorrow to see what you all thought.

Here are a few links to reactions to the debate in case anyone wants to keep discussing it. I will probably be up for another hour or so.

TPM: Biden Pins Ryan Down on Taxes — ‘Oh, Now You’re Jack Kennedy?’

Joe Biden came ready to talk taxes during Thursday’s vice presidential debate, charging at Paul Ryan full speed over his campaign’s vague answers as to how they would pay for a 20 percent tax cut across all income brackets that nonpartisan analysts claim is mathematically unworkable.
Moderator Martha Raddatz began by pressing Ryan on the issue, saying he’s “refused to offer specifics” on how he would pay for the cuts.

Ryan responded that “we want to have a big bipartisan agreement” and would work out the details later, citing Ronald Reagan’s 1986 reforms as a model.

“We want to work with Congress on how best to achieve this,” he said.

“Let me have a chance to translate,” Biden said. “I was there with Ronald Reagan. He gave specifics in terms of tax expenditures.”

I had to hand it to Martha Raddatz on that one. I suppose the Republicans will be outraged, and I say good! Let them clutch their pearls and retire to the fainting couch. Let’s have more women moderators!

Salon: Biden: Ryan “sent me two letters” asking for stimulus.

That was another good line for Biden!

NBC News: Biden plays aggressor in debate as Ryan makes GOP case.

Politico: Ryan camp not satisfied with Raddatz.

Oh, boo hoo…

Have you seen any good reactions? I’ll keep looking around. I’m too hyped up to sleep right now.

Obviously, this is an open thread!

44 Comments on “Joe Biden: “I have had it up to here with that notion of 47 percent.””

  1. bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
    October 11, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Josh Marshall:

    I’d call the first exchange on foreign policy basically a draw. Biden was on uncomfortable terrain on the Libya story. On each successive encounter, Biden was on the offensive and owned the conversation. I don’t think it was close. Ryan looked like a kid and certainly on foreign policy totally out of his depth. People forget that Biden’s lived foreign policy and national security for decades. He knows the stuff inside and out. The most difficult moment for Ryan was when Raddatz and Biden both pressed him for any specifics on how they can play for their tax plan. He simply refused. That’s all he could do because they have no way to pay for it. That’ll leave a bruise and cue up questions for next week.

    After the debate ended, Republicans were calling it a draw and Democrats were calling it a strong win for Biden. That tells you all you need to know.

    Yet I don’t think any of those things compare to this: Biden made the whole Democratic argument — on policy and values and he hit Romney really everywhere Democrats wanted him to. He left nothing unsaid. You can agree with those points or not. But this was exceedingly important for recovering the damage from last week’s debate when many Obama supporters simply felt that Obama wasn’t willing or able or something to make the case Democrats around the country are hyped up to make. Why didn’t you say this? Why’d you let him get away with that?

    Biden said it all. And for Democrats around the country that was extremely important.

  2. RalphB's avatar RalphB says:
    October 11, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    Scott Lemieux at LG&M: In Case You Missed Tonight’s Beatdown

    Shorter Paul Ryan: “Lie. Evasion. Non-sequitur. Anecdote about someone from middle America substantially less coherent and relevant than Abraham Simpson at his most rambling. Overrule Roe v. Wade.”

    Shorter Joe Biden: “Every obvious rejoinder Barack Obama inexplicably failed to make, in addition to some additional good lines.”

    In an ideal universe, some journalists might figure out that International Man of Ideas Paul Ryan — who embarrassed himself in a way even Palin didn’t — is not particularly bright or well-informed.

    I pretty much agree with Scott and your take on the debate.

    • dakinikat's avatar dakinikat says:
      October 11, 2012 at 11:50 pm

      I don’t think the foreign policy debate was a draw at all. Ryan was a nutter on the Iran thing.

      • bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
        October 11, 2012 at 11:58 pm

        Marshall thought the discussion of Libya was a draw and the rest went to Biden. I thought Biden did OK on Libya actually. I’m not sure how it sounded to someone who doesn’t know much about what happened.

      • RalphB's avatar RalphB says:
        October 12, 2012 at 12:05 am

        Neither do I. I think Ryan came off as a nutter as well.

      • bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
        October 12, 2012 at 12:07 am

        I liked Biden laughing because it was genuine. It was an incredulous laugh. Ryan smirked through the whole thing, as Dak pointed out earlier.

      • bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
        October 12, 2012 at 12:09 am

        Fred Barnes: Fred Barnes / Weekly Standard:
        Biden Bombed — You don’t win a nationally televised debate by being rude and obnoxious.

        Really? Mitt Romney did.

  3. bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Ron Wyden didn’t like Ryan claiming Wyden supports his Medicare plan.

    The Vice President is right, Romney/Ryan moved the goal post on Medicare and I strongly oppose their plan because I believe it hurts seniors. The Romney/Ryan plan raises the age of eligibility and repeals the ACA leaving millions of seniors with no health coverage. The Romney/Ryan plan on Medicare pulls the safety net out from under the poorest and most vulnerable seniors, taking away the opportunity for nursing home care from seniors who need it and have no other options.

    The Wyden-Ryan white paper strengthened the safety net for these dual eligibles. The Romney/Ryan version shreds it. The republican ticket knows that neither I, nor any other Democrat, would support these policies.

    The Romney/Ryan plan on Medicare is further proof that Mitt Romney is singularly unfit to end gridlock and bring bipartisan solutions to Washington.

    • RalphB's avatar RalphB says:
      October 12, 2012 at 12:17 am

      Wyden needs to continue being very open and forceful about that. He’s done it before but they keep saying it anyway. Somehow they need to be shamed out of using him as a talking point.

  4. pdgrey's avatar pdgrey says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:01 am

    Here’s another tbogg
    tbogg Never tire of longtime beltway pundits making six figures a year telling me how “middle America” is going to react to something.
    Searching around the pundits are really missing so key thing Ryan screwed up.

  5. bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:04 am

    I loved the way Biden talked about “Bibi” and how Obama talks to him all the time.

  6. RalphB's avatar RalphB says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:15 am

    Taegan Goddard: Reaction to the Vice Presidential Debate

    The vice presidential debate between Joe Biden and Paul Ryan was one of the best debates I can remember. It was a great service to all Americans.

    Biden had the primary goal of firing up Democrats after President Obama’s lackluster performance last week. He did that and more. He literally responded to every single assertion of Ryan’s and didn’t let a single thing go unchallenged. Democrats have to be very happy.

    Biden was especially strong on foreign policy but one of his best moments was taking Ryan to task for criticizing the Obama administration’s economic stimulus package while at the same time asking for stimulus funds for his own congressional district.

    Ryan’s goal was to build on Romney’s strong performance last week and continue to reassure undecided voters. In the end, however, he found his toughest opponent wasn’t Biden, it was his own record and the Romney campaign platform. He had trouble playing defense under Biden’s withering attacks. Ryan was exceptionally weak on the proposed Romney tax plan — “not mathematically possible”, according to Biden — while once again refusing to give specifics.

    In terms of style, Ryan didn’t take kindly to being interrupted. It was almost as if Biden was coached to interrupt him.

    Biden was more prepared, more experienced and the clear winner.

    Finally, Martha Raddatz was a wonderfully effective moderator. She continuously pushed for specifics and forced followups to nonsense. She should be commended by both campaigns

    Martha Raddatz should be asked to do the 2 remaining Presidential debates. She was great.

    • bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
      October 12, 2012 at 12:17 am

      I didn’t care for the religion question or the one about who they are “as a man.” The rest was great.

    • pdgrey's avatar pdgrey says:
      October 12, 2012 at 12:21 am

      I only have one question she asked that I really didn’t like. I’ll let Charles Pierce say it.
      Charles P. Pierce ‏@ESQPolitics

      Here it comes. Papist on Papist crime! Defining Catholicism through abortion is insulting, though
      I wanted the abortion question but not contorted in religion.

    • RalphB's avatar RalphB says:
      October 12, 2012 at 1:14 am

      I wanted the abortion question in enough to overlook how it came in. I wish there had been even more on women’s health and care in general.

      • bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
        October 12, 2012 at 7:44 am

        I can overlook it, but I’d like to see Ryan or Romney confronted directly with what limited abortion and birth control does to real women. It isn’t a religious issue. It’s a question of rights and autonomy of the individual.

    • ecocatwoman's avatar ecocatwoman says:
      October 12, 2012 at 5:42 am

      Personally I think Martha Raddatz won the debate. She pressed both Biden & Ryan many times when their answers weren’t on point or weren’t sufficient.

      Again, personally, as much as I abhor religion in politics, it’s a reality we are living with. The fact that both Biden & Ryan are practicing Catholics, I think it was a perfect way to frame the question. There are Catholics out there watching, hearing their priests preach politics from the pulpit and damning politicians who support Roe v Wade. I think Joe’s answer was pitch perfect & frankly his best & most coherent answer of the evening.

      Sadly, I think Ryan won the closing remarks. Sadly, because for many non-political junkies watching the debate, the closing remarks will be the take away for them from this debate. The answers from each man throughout the debate came down to “who do you believe.” Fortunately, I think the majority of Americans have already made up their minds. Now the question will be, who convinced the most undecideds to vote for them.

      • bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
        October 12, 2012 at 7:48 am

        The simple truth is that the vast majority of Catholics ignore what the church has to say about abortion and birth control. And Catholic teaching is that in the end one follows ones own conscience.

        I don’t care what religion candidates belong to. In this country, the government is secular, and that fact needs to be hammered home again and again.

      • bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
        October 12, 2012 at 7:50 am

        I also thought it was wrong of Raddatz to bring her own opinions into the discussion on Afghanistan.

  7. pdgrey's avatar pdgrey says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:16 am

    Only one question left to ask tonight. How long did it take for Ryan to empty his bladder? 🙂

  8. bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:16 am

    tbogg If you want America to know that you are profoundly incurably stupid, just call yourself an “undecided” and get on a TV panel.

    • RalphB's avatar RalphB says:
      October 12, 2012 at 12:21 am

      I saw MSNBCs undecideds. tbogg is right. Luckily, 3 are now voting for Obama, 1 for Rmoney, while 2 are incurably undecided. 🙂

      • pdgrey's avatar pdgrey says:
        October 12, 2012 at 12:26 am

        earlier tonight
        TBogg ‏@tbogg

        Tonight Paul Ryan has requested to be referred to as Mr. Ryan. Choosing second, Joe Biden has opted for Deacon Blue

  9. Woman Voter (@WomanVote)'s avatar Woman Voter (@WomanVote) says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:23 am

    I watched the debate and was surprised at the coverage both here and internationally. Seems to me the power brokers are in the media mix again. Some are calling it a tie, other said Ryan did very well.

  10. Woman Voter (@WomanVote)'s avatar Woman Voter (@WomanVote) says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:25 am

    So, what do you all make of the media reaction and the pundits?

  11. RalphB's avatar RalphB says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:31 am

    Joe Cannons’s video not only made it onto TPM, it’s also at Sully’s at the Daily Beast.

    http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/10/27-lies-in-one-debate.html

  12. pdgrey's avatar pdgrey says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:32 am

    I like this too.
    “I love that Biden and Raddatz both ignored the no “Congressman Ryan” rule.
    Apparently Goober Munster didn’t want the viewers to be reminded that he’s part of a group less popular than herpes. Not only did they both repeatedly call him congressman, but Biden even brought up congress’s super crappy approval rating”.

    • bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
      October 12, 2012 at 12:41 am

      Did you see Rachel saying that Paul Ryan was the third most disliked politician in the country even before Mitt put him on the ticket?

  13. bostonboomer's avatar bostonboomer says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:39 am

    Pierce:

    For years, Paul Ryan has been the shining champion of some really terrible ideas, and of a dystopian vision of the political commonwealth in which the poor starve and the elderly die ghastly, impoverished deaths, while all the essential elements of a permanent American oligarchy were put in place. This has garnered him loving notices from a lot of people who should have known better. The ideas he could explain were bad enough, but the profound ignorance he displayed on Thursday night on a number of important questions, including when and where the United States might wind up going to war next, and his blithe dismissal of any demand that he be specific about where he and his running mate are planning to take the country generally, was so positively terrifying that it calls into question Romney’s judgment for putting this unqualified greenhorn on the ticket at all. Joe Biden laughed at him? Of course, he did. The only other option was to hand him a participation ribbon and take him to Burger King for lunch.

    You know what’s the difference between Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan?
    Lipstick.

    • pdgrey's avatar pdgrey says:
      October 12, 2012 at 12:50 am

      I love Charles Pierce.

      • pdgrey's avatar pdgrey says:
        October 12, 2012 at 1:10 am

        My second favorite part was
        There is a deeply held Beltway myth of Paul Ryan, Man of Big Ideas, and it dies hard. But, if there is a just god in the universe, on Thursday night, it died a bloody death, was hurled into a pit, doused with quicklime, buried without ceremony, and the ground above it salted and strewn with garlic so that it never rises again.

    • RalphB's avatar RalphB says:
      October 12, 2012 at 12:53 am

      Classic!

  14. RalphB's avatar RalphB says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:51 am

    Dave Weigel: Bluegrassterpiece Theater: the Ryan-Biden Debate

    The Steamroller: Reading this transcript is going to be like scanning a David Mamet play. Biden never gave up the momentum he won in the first five minutes — he seems physically unable to let Ryan finish an answer, interrupting him as if he’s livetweeting to correct every factoid he dislikes.

    Whether or not this Biden performance helps Obama, you could sell bootleg DVDs of it to Dems for $20.

  15. pdgrey's avatar pdgrey says:
    October 12, 2012 at 1:16 am

    Did any notice if Ryan had both ears when he left the stage? 🙂

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