Mitt Meltdown Open Thread
Posted: July 12, 2012 Filed under: 2012 presidential campaign, just because, open thread, U.S. Politics | Tags: Bain Capital, Lawrence O'Donnell, Mitt Romney, Rachel Maddow 66 Comments
I thought I’d put up an open thread to discuss the ongoing Mitt Shady meltdown–or anything else on your mind. I’m gearing up to listen to Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O’Donnell and I’ll post anything interesting they have to say. If you’re watching or listening too, please join in.
I know you’re already aware that Romney demanded a retraction from The Boston Globe, and they informed him that their story is solid and they’re not backing down. Of course the Obama campaign laughed their asses off at Romney’s demand for an apology from them. Here are some of the latest headlines on the Mitt Shady meldown.
I really like this post by Brian Beutler: Cutting Through The Bain Bamboozlement
Technical questions are, for the moment, dominating the dispute over when Mitt Romney really left Bain Capital. But from my point of view, on the sidelines of this particular story, it all seems much, much simpler.
The reason this issue is in dispute at all is because Mitt Romney wants full political inoculation from anything Bain did between early 1999 and 2002, when he definitely truly left the company. He wasn’t in charge, except in a narrow, technical sense; he’d delegated his duties; Bain’s business practices from that period can’t be hung around his neck.
If you’re not already belly-laughing think about it this way.
For Romney to be truly off the hook politically for the stuff Bain was doing, he’d have to claim not lack of control, but lack of knowledge. And that’s just not going to wash with anyone. He could try going the “I didn’t have even the slightest idea what the company I technically still owned was doing” route, but he’d be marking himself as either dishonest or incompetent.
Here’s a story from The Boston Globe defending their original piece from this morning.
The Romney campaign did not dispute the contents of the documents reviewed by the Globe but insisted Romney had nothing to do with Bain Capital’s operations after he became chief executive of the Salt Lake Organizing Committee.
“The article is not accurate,” Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul said. “As Bain Capital has said, as Governor Romney has said, and as has been confirmed by independent fact checkers multiple times, Governor Romney left Bain Capital in February of 1999 to run the Olympics and had no input on investments or management of companies after that point.” [….]
But a former SEC commissioner told the Globe that even if Romney did not have his hand in Bain Capital’s day-to-day operations, he was still responsible for them, as the firm’s boss.
“It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to say he was technically in charge on paper but he had nothing to do with Bain’s operations,” said Roberta S. Karmel, now a professor at Brooklyn Law School. “Was he getting paid? He’s the sole stockholder. Are you telling me he owned the company but had no say in its investments?”
The Romney campaign claimed Karmel is biased, noting that she was appointed by Democratic President Jimmy Carter. Karmel did not donate to Obama in 2008 and has not given to the president’s campaign this year, either.
HuffPo: Mitt Romney’s Own Testimony Undermines Bain Departure Claim.
Romney has consistently insisted that he was too busy organizing the 2002 Winter Olympics to take part in Bain business between 1999 and that event. But in the testimony, which was provided to The Huffington Post, Romney noted that he regularly traveled back to Massachusetts. “[T]here were a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to Massachusetts, board meetings, Thanksgiving and so forth,” he said.
Romney’s sworn testimony was given as part of a hearing to determine whether he had sufficient residency status in Massachusetts to run for governor.
Romney testified that he “remained on the board of the Staples Corporation and Marriott International, the Life Like Corporation” at the time.
Yet in the Aug. 12, 2011, federal disclosure form filed as part of his presidential bid, he said, “Mr. Romney retired from Bain Capital on February 11, 1999 to head the Salt Lake Organizing Committee. Since February 11, 1999, Mr. Romney has not had any active role with any Bain Capital entity and has not been involved in the operations of any Bain Capital entity in any way.”
Bain, a private equity firm, held a stake in the Lifelike Co. until the end of 2001, including during the period in which Romney claimed to have no business involvement with Bain entities. Bain had heavily invested in Lifelike, a company that Romney identified personally as an opportunity, in 1996 and sold its shares in late 2001. His involvement with Lifelike contradicts his assertion that he had no involvement with Bain business. His testimony is supported by his 2001 Massachusetts State Ethics Commission filing, in which he lists himself as a member of Lifelike’s board.
WaPo: Mitt Romney faces new round of calls to release tax returns.
For the Romney campaign, the calculation is complex, as his advisers are weighing the benefits of transparency against the potential problems he could face should the documents reveal — or even appear to reveal — that he has gamed the tax code.
For now, Romney’s advisers said that the candidate has been sufficiently transparent and that he has no plans to disclose additional tax filings. But with four months left until Election Day — and the near-certainty that Romney will face questions about his finances in any interviews and in the fall debates — his advisers might be forced to reevaluate their strategy if the issue damages his standing in the polls.
Even some Republicans are describing the Romney position as problematic. Former Mississippi governor Haley Barbour, a onetime party chairman, said this week that he would provide more than two years’ worth of documents if he were in Romney’s shoes.
Strategist Mark McKinnon said the candidate’s reluctance to release his taxes feeds into the Obama campaign’s argument that Romney is hiding something and taking advantage of the system to enrich himself.
The longer Romney stalls, the worse this is going to get. He’s starting to sound like Nixon claiming “I am not a crook.”
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Sky Dancing 
Rachel started her show with a summary of Romney’s repeated claims that he left Bain in 1999. He used that excuse in 1994 when he ran against Ted Kennedy, and again when he ran for governor against Shannon O’Brian.
Thanks for doing this BB, I really appreciate all you and Dak have been doing keeping us updated on this. You have been a huge voice for us when it comes to Romney’s qualifications, cough..cough. Thank you again.
One of the Globe writers is talking to Rachel right now. He confirmed everything Rachel said in her summary.
What’s interesting is the paper trail in the SEC documents–showing him as sole owner, CEO, and president of Bain. He was clearly the man in charge.
He did leave and go to Salt Lake. He’s legally in charge, maybe not in the boardroom. But he had legal responsibility and had oversight responsibility for the company.
Rachel: is is legal to do that? To be an absentee owner?
A variety of experts say it’s not entirely Kosher. The SEC documents do matter. Bain is not a publicly traded company, but they do have a responsibility to investors to be honest about who is running the company.
Does “not entirely kosher” = illegal?
The writer (Callum Borchers) says that there definitely won’t be a retraction. Romney doesn’t like the Globe’s take on the story, but it is accurate. Says it’s pretty hard for an ordinary person to understand the distinctions Romney is trying to make.
Borchers was on Sharpton earlier. Focus of the interview was on how the public would perceive Romney as lying rather than the possibility he committed a felony in filing the SEC docs. I would like to hear a legal expert address that issue.
Andy Borowitz: Conclusive evidence Romney left Bain in 2002.
Rachel: At this moment Romney is in Wyoming to “kiss the ring” of Dick Cheney, who is hosting Romney at a fundraising event and then in Cheney’s own home. There will not be any video of either event however.
Cheney’s approval rating was in the toilet when he left office.
I’ll bet he’s kissing more than the ring
A few reporters are live twittering from the event.
It’s like the President leaving on vacation, and not responsible for what happens to our Country when he is gone.
Exactly. But even the president isn’t the *sole owner* of the country. Romney owned 100% of the shares in Bain at least until 2002. I’d love to know how much he owns now.
Didn’t he say it was all in trust, and didn’t know how much he owns?
Anyone who believes that is nuts. The “trust” is run by Romney’s long-time family lawyer. It was good enough for MA, but it doesn’t meet federal standards for a blind trust. Romney’s attorney gave $10 million to Romney’s son Tagg to start a company. I do not for one minute believe the attorney made that decision on his own.
I hear ya BB………………he knows
From dailykos, Ben LaBolt was on the Ed show earlier and said that Romney was flown in from Utah to attend Bain board meetings in 2002!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/12/1109287/-Breaking-Rmoney-flown-in-for-board-meetings-in-2002
Big Ed spent nearly the entire hour on this story. It was also revealed on the Ed Show and Rachel that Romney stated in sworn testimony when his eliglibity to run as Governor was being challenged, that he was on LOA from Bain, not retired. .
Has Mark Halperin written that this was great for McCain yet? 🙂
O’Donnell should be great. A whole show about the lies of Mitt Romney,
He’s leading off with it right now. O’Donnell hates Romney’s guts. He’s from Mass. like me, lol.
Borchers from the Globe is a darn good reporter. Explains himself clear as a bell.
Okay, you two, report on what O’Donnell says! I can’t watch it until it’s on the website later.
Drudge is claiming that Condi is a finalist in the VP race. Romney trying to distract the media. Not going to work, MItt. Just release the tax returns. Someone who worked for McCain could leak them any day now.
Saying he won’t pick a woman because of Sarah Palin……….
He wants his on Sarah, or Meg Whitman, you know both are capitalist, and have great
Smiles
This is exactly what I was thinking BB, it certainly would not surprise me if they did.
The other Globe writer is on with Lawrence right now.
The new Pew poll is the “most disastrous poll for Mitt Romney yet.”
Someone on O’Donnell (I’m listening on radio) saying that maybe the opportunity to run for governor came up at the last minute. It was a problem, because he had been living in Utah and there was some question that he couldn’t be considered a resident of MA. He was filing tax returns from Utah (he saved money that way).
The claim that he just took a leave of absence and had never really left Bain was support for his claim to still be a Mass resident (Bain is in Boston).
Since he didn’t have the severance agreement till 2002, he still owned the company, drew a salary and was CEO and President.
O’Donnell says “we have a ruling on this. I have ruled that” Romney’s story makes no sense.
Next up David Corn and and an exclusive interview w/ a former SEC Commissioner
🙂
Are you watching?
I wish I had time to go make some popcorn….
My TV is in another room and my old laptop died, so I’ve just got my desktop now. Moving bwtween rooms is a pain. Go make popcorn.
Former SEC commissioner Robert Karmel. She was quoted in the Globe article this morning.
Karmel says documents filed with the SEC are serious documents and there are serious comments if they are falsified. There can be civil or criminal charges–not that she’s saying that will happen to Mitt Shady.
I really hope that if there is any charges, they will do something about it, and not let him get away with this.
Bain is claiming that Romney left suddenly and that caused them to have to keep him on as technical CEO for three years. This happens all the time, and you have to just make a new filing if it happens.
What does it really mean to make the claim as Romney did that he was CEO and in control of the company?
Karmel: generally when a businessman is Chairman, CEO, and in this case sole stockholder, he is responsible legally for anything the company does. Unfortunately lots of businessmen try to weasel out of this responsibility, which is why Sarbanes Oxley was passed.
Question: Fortune mag. claims they have found one filing that doesn’t mention Romney as CEO.
Karmel: Someone who is CEO may not be making every day-to-day decision, but it would be unusual for someone who is 100% owner and CEO not to pay attention to what kinds of investments are being made and not monitor them.
Globe reporter: Of course we aren’t claiming that Romney had his hands in everything Bain did. But he was still the man in charge.
Wolfe: He was in business for a long time and never heard of an absentee CEO. Why would anyone do that.
Karmel: Well may they thought Mitt was a really good manager. But then he’s responsible. And if Romney was 100% stockholder, he could choose who was in charge. He chose himself.
Karmel doesn’t think the SEC will investigate this because the documents are so old, but there could be civil suits.
David Corn is up next.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are old. SEC docs from 2001-2002 are not old.
lol
Corn had a good point in that he doesn’t think the Romney campaign knows what he did so they don’t know what’s coming at them. If true, that’s pretty amazing and dumb,
Romney seems like a real detail oriented guy–almost obsessive compulsive. I’ll bet a lot of his advisers are out of the loop.
That was the shit I was worried about…
O’Donnell says Romney is a lying liar. The media hates to call politicians liars, but he is a huge liar.
They play a tape of Romney trying to rationalize why he claimed he saw his dad march with Martin Luther King.
The lying begins with Romney’s claim that “Mitt” is his first name.
They are talking about how Mitt Romney managed to change his heartfelt support of choice about abortion to his position now that a women who gets an abortion is a criminal.
Romney made the calculation that he could lie endlessly and use his money to run ads that say anything that will help him win.
I’m going to listen to the Ed Show and then I might listen to Rachel again, because I missed some of it.
What news will tomorrow bring?
Paul Krugman: “I miss Bush’s honesty” Yuck, that’s really bad!
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78457.html
Whoa!
Thanks for doing the live blog, BB, and other Sky Dancers.
Tomorrow is another day. 😉
You’re welcome. Be sure to watch O’Donnell tomorrow.
There’s a lot of it … fbi released the Zimmerman file, the Sandusky internal investigation report is out … Rush is race baiting again! It’s sleeze fest out there!!!
Did you see that there may be an eyewitness to the shooting?
Yup.
Only the right wing nutjobs are celebrating anything that would put Zimmerman in a favorable light and this convinces me that it’s all about race.
The facts are that this guy stalked what he determined to be a “suspicous” person, got out of the vehicle against advice and only did so because he was armed. Whatever pushing and shoving took place was done so out of fear on Trayvon’s part because Zimmerman was already armed.
However, since Trayvon was black Zimmerman’s actions have been sanitized to fit the facts they prefer to believe.
The same crowd who finds nothing “suspicous” about Romney lying through his teeth by the way. Lying and lying and lying each day, every day without let up.
But hey, if your saliva glands spit out “I hate Obama” then whomever the GOP puts up in opposition is fine by them.
The “next big thing” is to trot out Condi Rice as a running mate. You all remember Condi. Another one who was loose with the facts and stood by Bush like they were joined at the hip. Better yet, the same Condi whose memory of certain events was set on “I don’t recollect”. She will fit in nicely with that crowd.
tbogg Romney’s Bain problem and resulting fallout is going to push him into making a Hail Mary VP selection. That is how Sarah Palins happen.
😉
I wonder if next revelation will be that Mitt Romney is still serving as a bishop of LDS church…
Nothing would surprise me at this point.
Well mittens is right up there in the LDS hierarchy and he gives tons of money to his church. I’d bet that the LDS rewards heavy givers with high office.
What I hoping is that more of the LDS inner workings sees the light of day.
It is hard to know when Mittens is being honest — which is the downside of being a liar liar pants on fire.