Wing Nut Scramble (Live Blogging a Shooter Tragedy)
Posted: January 8, 2011 Filed under: Crime, Live, psychology, U.S. Politics | Tags: bans on automatic weapons, campaign violence, gun control, Jared Loughner, mentally ill with access to automatic weapons, right wing violent rhetoric and images, Tea party Rhetoric 72 Comments
You don’t have to have a doctorate in psychology to figure out that the latest spree shooter had serious mental illness problems. What’s odd to me is the sudden scramble–typical in these situations–by ideologues ready to label his mental illness as a symptom of political ideology. No where is this more rampant than the number of right wingers that are taking one mention of one book–The Communist Manifesto–as an indication that suspected shooter Jared Loughner was a leftie. That’s pretty interesting given that WAPO is reporting that he’s a veteran. Loughner tried to enlist in the military but was rejected. (See update below.) They’re screaming ‘leftie’ while simultaneously scrubbing their sites of items like the Palin Tweet and the Palin Map of Congressional Critterz’ Districts–including that of shooting victim Congress Woman Gifford–with rifle sight images over the top. Is this kind of after-the-fact scrubbing a mea culpa of sorts? They’re sure acting like they own it.
Giffords has been a target of violent threats for some time now. The threats have come from the right wing and the majority have occurred since the HCR vote last summer. Folks that say that this shooter’s acts–no matter how linked to his personal mental hell–can’t be put into the context of encouraging and enabling violence haven’t been paying attention. Violent imagery and rhetoric is a loaded gun. It’s the same denial that comes from anti-abortion supporters and their disconnect from the shooting of Dr. Gun. You encourage it. You own a role in it. It’s not the root cause of mental illness, but it establishes violence as a potentially heroic act. Most psychotic people are crazy but not stupid. They can feel the heroic myth. Many seek a way to go down with it.
But it’s worth noting that Giffords — who in 2006 became the youngest woman ever elected to Congress, at 36 — has, for more than a year, been the target of violence-tinged rhetoric from political opponents and of threats that appear to have come from right-wing activists.
Asked by the New York Post whether his daughter had any enemies, Giffords’s father replied: “The whole tea party.”
In August 2009, an attendee at a Giffords town-hall meeting dropped a handgun, leading Giffords’ staff to call the police. “We have never felt the need before to notify law enforcement when we hold these events,” her spokesman said at the time.
After Giffords voted in favor of the health-care overhaul in March, she said that vandals had broken the glass door of her Tucson office. “The rhetoric is incredibly heated, not just the calls but the emails, the slurs,” she told MSNBC at the time. “Things have really gotten spun up.”
Ben Smith has a brief thread up on the foot prints left in social media by alleged shooter Jared Loughner. Some of them are bizarre rants about currency and the gold standard that are worthy of a Glenn Beck or Ron Paul fan. There’s also some crazed references to correct English grammar and mind control. Who knows which flake in the vast American Breakfast Bowl of ideology some of this stuff comes from?
What’s more important is that young man had a serious mental illness that no one either detected or did anything about and access to an automatic rifle. One of the most ironic and important things is contained in a series of 
tweets I saw from 
Dahlia Lithwick. The Judge that was killed by this shooter actually found parts of the Brady Bill unconstitutional including the background check requirements back in 1994. Roll was an appointee of the first President Bush and was recommended by John McCain.
In Arizona, U.S. District Court Judge John Roll has become the third federal judge to agree that part of the Brady Law violates the Tenth Amendment The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people.
He is the first to say that part of the Brady Law also violates the Fifth Amendment.
Judge Roll’s opinion does not knock out the waiting period for handgun purchases, but it does strike at the very concept of the federal government requiring local law enforcement officers to conduct background checks.
We will undoubtedly hear more about the shooter’s background today and tomorrow as the press and police do their jobs. There will undoubtedly be more scrambling to disassociate the Tea Party or Communists or whatever from the Shooter. Let’s not forget the bigger issue. This guy was probably psychotic. He had easy access to an automatic weapon. Then there are these facts. Six people DIED and 12 were wounded. The dead included a 9 year old girl.
A federal judge was killed and a congresswoman gravely wounded Saturday in a shooting outside of a Tucson, Arizona, grocery store, according to police and government officials.
In all, six people died and 12 were wounded in the shooting, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona, according to Rick Kastigar, bureau chief for the Pima County Sheriff’s Department.
President Barack Obama later said Chief Judge John Roll of the U.S. District Court for Arizona was among the dead.
A 9-year-old girl also died in the attack, according to authorities. The child, whose identity had not been released, was pronounced dead at a hospital.
The most bizarre thing I saw tweeted was a statement from Dana Bash saying both sides needed to tone down their rhetoric. I haven’t seen anything from the left wing approaching calls to lock and reload or pictures of gun sites on points on a map from of the US representing Democratic incumbents like Giffords. Right now, the left is tweeting that the shooter also considered Mein Kamp a favorite and that Giffords is Jewish. As the right wing hurries to pull down their vitriol and tries to focus on a list of favorite books that reads very close to the reading list I was assigned in high school, let’s try to stay focused on the issues of untreated mental illness and easy access to guns. I think they are more germane at the moment. But don’t ever forget, there is frequently a connection between violent images and rhetoric and people with mental illnesses acting out. I’ll just point back to the Anti-abortion apologist that don’t think their rhetoric enable the climate that caused the crazy to kill Dr. Gunn. I’ll also point to pornography apologists that don’t think that they contribute to sexual assault or treatment of women. When you condone it or encourage it, you set up an environment of acceptance or an idealist frame of hero and martyr. No surprise or apologia, then when some one walking around with a mental illness and easy access to automatic weapons wants to act out the ideal.
He claimed to have ties to the military, referring to a Phoenix “MEPS” military induction center — and commenting on how officials handed recruits “mini bibles.”
“Loughner is a United States Military recruit,” he adds.
But in fact, an Army spokesman said Loughner “attempted to enlist in the Army, but was rejected for service.” The spokeman declined to say why Loughner was rejected, citing the Privacy Act.
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This scramble to mop up and disappear stuff on their sites is amazing….they feel guilty of something!
It is a very sad day, sad because even a child was deemed to be ‘The Enemy’ and the fact that Hate has taken hold and hold in the ugliest way.
“They bring a knife, we bring a gun.” — BarackObama
“Get in their faces.” — BarackObama
Yes they shooter probably is psychotic. Schizophrenia usually manifests with the first psychotic break between the ages of 17 and 25. This person , and many others , may have no record of any kind that would prevent him from owning a gun .
Kat, did you see Donna Brazile’s tweet today calling for the right wing to stop the bullying and threats? HA! Look in the mirror, Donna.
DWP, AMEN!
nope! I don’t follow her and she wasn’t retweeted. Wow, she should talk!
Oh, I sure as hell don’t follow her either–saw a retweet. My eyes are still bleeding.
yeh dak, where were you during the primaries.. and don’t you think putting palins face book page on the front page a bit…how would you call it..a bit provactive and clearly not a sign of balance… I’m sorry, but while i generally respect your front pagers and bloggers, i find this a bit of a cheap shot, pardon the pun.
It would be if Palin’s pages were not being so vigorously and instantly scrubbed…I believe that was what dak was responding too…and the amazing elbow grease applied to the cleansing .
@ KK:
By placing a factual tweet from Palin on the above post does not necessarily constitute the post as: “a bit provocative and not a sign of balance. ”
We respect your opinion, and I am glad you are adding your voice to the discussion. I have to respond that this post was in no way a “cheap shot.”
That said, I feel that the shooting was an atrocious act. Carried out by a truly disturbed individual. Let’s not forget that innocent people were killed and wounded. My thoughts are with them and their families, I am sure that we can agree on that.
I don’t think we have ever claimed to be “balanced,” have we? We’re liberals.
Paper Doll is right. I find the scrubbing says a lot and I think that pointing it out is important. I’ve always been a consistent voice against all sexist attacks on women candidates. I find Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann to be two women’s voices we could do without, frankly. They’re not heavy weights on any issue. They say odd and inappropriate things. They’re positions are wrong in my view. I’m not exactly sure what you think my position about her was during the primary and what that’s got to do with an example of what she’s scrubbing right now from her Sarah Pac. But, it’s your opinion …
BTW, would could you point out where left wing blogs are scrubbing similar or related situations? I don’t recall any left wing blog using a gun metaphor quite that way but maybe I’m being naive.
A cheap shot? Give me a break. Palin is a wingnut and has been getting more wingnutty as time goes on. She’s the one who put up that map.
bb i would neveraccuse you of being balanced…don’t worry, i know you are a liberal
What a freaking mess, and then there is this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot
If it has been posted already, sorry.
I posted that YouTube video because I thought it added something. Because of the Tea Party candidate that challenged Giffords, and the involvement of SarahPac and Sarah Palin in the campaign, I feel that Palin is directly associated with the tone that the challenger’s campaign took. Giffords obviously believes so too.
Yeah, Dak that is the interview the quote above mentions…I also think the tone that Palin and others had is very pertinent to the discussion we are having. The fact that they are clearing their websites and social networks of the past comments they have made shows that something is wrong with this.
I’m thinking that any of those victims could have civil suits up their sleeves with rhetoric like that and I think that lawyers probably have looked that over already.
This is just so heartbreaking. I lived in Tucson during 9/11 so I left before she was elected to her first term. I also worked at the UA Medical Center complex where she and the other victims were taken. It’s a first rate trauma center.
Giffords won Jim Kolbe’s old district which is still a very difficult district for a Dem to win. She is technically a ‘blue dog’ but most of my Democratic friends have actually worked for her re-election—a squeaker which she won against a *tea party candidate.
The place I am watching for the latest information is CNN news which has a live feed from KGUN TV in Tucson
***Edited to remove the derogatory tea party reference. Please refrain from using the tea bag analogy…it does not foster constructive discussion. Thank you, Minx.***
I am very glad salmonrising to hear that the hospital the victims were taken to is a top rate trauma facility. Thank you for posting about living in Tucson. This whole thing is upsetting.
I just got home und haven’t had the time to read through the side stories.
I have been wondering for some time how much have to happen until responsible people stopped playing around with these violent metaphors.
I see people jumping up and down to defend Palin who was among the purveyors of this violent language and imageries. Many of you have probably seen this:
Sarah Palin was actually asked if it wasn’t a little scary to use this kind of imagery, she said it was fine and actually doubled down on the rhetoric.
Why do people act surprised and defensive when some nutball followed a perceived advice?
My post up top is about that. They’re scrubbing all the sites they can of those images also and replacing them with ‘prayers’ for Congresswoman Giffords. I think they can smell the civil lawsuits a mile away too.
Well, she did the main speech for the motivator of the Progressive Hunter, and continued to use that image even after that nut went hunting to do a mass murder.
Progressive Hunter (inspired by Glenn Beck)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoTpLr-mBLcI think we have t o ask what they really mean, by ‘Take Back Our Country’?
Ugh. Talking violence is practicing violence.
That’s what I think. I can’t believe some people are saying that it can’t possibly be connected. It’s like what you hear from those anti-abortion groups when one of their nuts kills a doctor or blows up a clinic. It’s not because of us!! Same thing with pornographers! Our images couldn’t possibly hurt women or lead to sexual assault and violence!!
Wingnut apologia!
The ugly rhetoric used during campaigns the last several years, coupled with the blatant idolization of violent Starz, violent sports figures, totally sick reality shows, and the de-humanization of people by gender, race, and economics most certainly do feed an unbalanced person’s “conscience dreams”.
Unbalanced, psychotic is the key word. The people who need mental health are not being treated or dealt with. We have a failed society – our media and the programing shown is totally devoid of any contribution to healthy life styles, healthy debate or values. I don’t think KO saying “Hillary should be taken into a room ….not come out” was benign. There are hundreds of such examples.
When our leaders and their supporters covertly or overtly promote violence – 24/7 – it gives those with problems a constantly reinforced reminder that violence is okay. I sure don’t want to discuss who is worse. Hate is not a positive.
My thoughts are with the victims and their families – may those who survived recover.
That is just wonderfully stated and I applaud it. You can’t put up violent images,use violent rhetoric, and encourage acts of ‘heroism’ and then looked surprised when some one insane takes you up on it. Doesn’t make any difference whose side your own.
This post is perfection. Thank you.
Thank you! And welcome to sky dancing!!!
@Boo, thank you for that comment…
i agree that violent rhetoric can be enough to prompt the mentally unstable to go over the top…in that regard i do find some of the palin rhetoric a bit close to the edge…still….she isn’t talking in a vacuum and for the most part she is responding to the violent rhetoric of the left and the left wing commentators. that doesn’t make it right either. i think the political debate in america is pretty much in the gutter. as for scrubbing sites..i dont go to left wing sites to know, but i do read otjer blogs like john smart, riverdaughter, hillbuz etc and they have references to actuals…for my part, i have a long memory..
it is a terrible tragedy with many innocent victims…so sad…
Politics is nearly always played in the gutter. That’s really unfortunate. Races turn ugly when one of the contestants is ugly.
My mom used to tell me not to jump in the river just because some one else does it. All of the folks that use violent, sexist, racist, homophobic rhetoric are wrong. Using the lock and load imagery was as wrong as Boo’s example of KO’s talk on taking Hillary into a room where she doesn’t come out … that stuff just sticks in sick minds. Smart people shouldn’t resort to that kind of outrageous rhetoric.
I seem to remember plenty of violent imagery aimed at both Palin and Clinton from 2008 from the left. And while I don’t keep up with any of the PDS/CDS blogs these days, I would be amazed if it hadn’t continued.
A Right-wing rush to blame the left or liberals or whomever they’re blaming because of the Communist Manifesto is indeed ridiculous. But that doesn’t mean it’s ok to aim the same rush at one instance of Palin’s, implying some sort of direct causality. We know almost nothing about this guy — what if he turns out to be her gardner or something who took umbrage at her criticism of his azealas?
There’s TONS of violent language and imagery coming from the right, but all anyone can discuss is this one graphic of Palin’s.
One question which jumps to my mind reading about the threats and harassment that Giffords received is how much greater (or not) was it than any Congressperson receives? Almost all public figures, from d-list reality show stars to the President (of any era) gets death and violence threats.
There are groups who build their ideology or principles based on violence, and then there are people who attracted to violence who find an outlet or expression in one or some of several dominant political or social groups of the day. Which is this guy? Or he may be just a random crazy. Assassination is much much more complex than a single graphic showing up on Palin’s site.
I think that question is what every one want’s to know. He seems to be a complex hybrid from his reading and writings list. He probably will be diagnosed with schizophrenia. I’m wondering if they can identify the trigger. BB pointed out to me earlier that if he’s a veteran–and he’s only 21–wonder if PTSD had anything to do with it. Plus, he’s awfully young to be a veteran. Did they actually see something and turn him lose?
Those are some questions in the back of my mind.
I just read the Military’s statement at Huffpo…he was never accepted.
Oh, good, then the WAPO article was wrong. They must’ve known something was up with him then. The sheriff said he had a ‘troubled’ background.
here’s the link Huffpo provided:
7:46 P.M. |Army Says Suspect Tried, Failed to Join
A statement by the Army issued just now says that the suspect in the Arizona shooting had tried to enlist but was rejected for an unspecified reason. Here is the statement:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/live-blog-representative-giffords-shot/
“The Army has confirmed that the suspect was never in the Army. He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected.”
Thank you. I put that up at the top from what I found at Politico. I think it’s important to clear that up.
Having had the experience of family that was threatened in the example you give, yea, it happens, but NO, no one ever ran a campaign with their name on a map with ‘Scope’ on it. Unstable people did call especially when their name was on the committing papers (some times they thought they did, rather than the judge or the team) and yes, one even said they were across the street. So, they got a huge dog, and no, none attacked.
There is the ‘allure’ when someone thinks a high profile individual ‘approves’ of this sort of targeting and frankly I expected a little more from Palin, given that she knew what that was about, and in that instance she failed.
TPM has a conversation up with the Arizona Sheriff investigating this that’s kind’ve interesting:
Conspiracy or not?
I found this over at digby’s. She put up Bill Clinton’s words on the Oklahoma bombing. I’m going to lift a short bit I found inspiring. I found more comfort in it then anything I’ve see today.
There are alot of questions to be asked about the young man Jared, and the young in general, who are resorting to killing, like the HS student last week in Nebraska who killed. There are a few other hard questions that need to be asked. For instanst, we have or had what was created two years ago, the “White House Council on women and Girls”………were are they, what is there role at a time like today? We don’t have many women serving in congress, and I think this is a first. Please correct me if I am wrong.
This morning I was reading the article here in regards to femicide, the politics of woman killing. The Aaron Shulman article is in regards to the women of Guatemala, perhaps we can see a trend here
in our country, when you consider the fact that 1 out 4 women will be asaulted.
It’s time for us to stand up and demand protection!
There’s some information coming out on the young woman and the girl that were murdered.
This is so sad.
Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/08/20110108arizona-congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shooting-victims-brk08-ON.html#ixzz1AVUJIMjC
Question for Dak. As you noted: “the sudden scramble–typical in these situations–by ideologues ready to label his mental illness as a symptom of political ideology.”. And I saw plenty of this while looking around earlier today (actually, much of it from the left). And I do think that the American glorification of violence, including some of the rhetoric from the right, can contribute to how mental illness plays out in such cases (but it’s complex – e.g. I’m still skeptical that the Palin graphic per se played any specific part in this case). And there’s the inability of this country to institute appropriate gun laws (with predominant opposition from the right).
My question though has to do with the ideology bit. I was talking to my girlfriend a few weeks ago (for context – old school 60’s feminist). She argued that one problem with political discourse these days is that it has become too “heady” and ideological, rather than being grounded in lived experience (and she talked about Betty Friedan’s emphasis on lived experience). Too much abstraction and not very present. She argued that this can result in “people making themselves stupid” (e.g. ignoring the particularity and complexity of real life – substituting ideological schematas). And in the political discourse these days, there’s a lot of anger (much of it self-righteous) and rather little true compassion – which I think is somehow also tied to relative lack of being present/grounded.
My question for Dak – do you think there are elements in Buddhism that have potential as a corrective? Just to be clear – I’m not suggesting that everyone should convert to Buddhism (I’m not actually a Buddhist myself). But I’m wondering if there are ideas or perspectives or practices that have potential to give voice to healthier politics. I know it’s rather an odd question – but I’ve been musing.
I am interested to read Dak’s reply to this affinis, thanks for posting.
i’m giving this some thought while sending youngest daughter and cat off to university again … she just got home from break
Buddhism is about peeling the layers away that prevent us from being authentic or grounded in what we know as basic morality or truth, and just plain sane. Our minds are like monkeys darting from tree to tree. We release some thought and we chase it around without really questioning if who we are right now can give the thought the proper gravitas and if it deserves any attention at all. We frequently make ‘knee jerk’ responses that are not helpful to us or any one else.
Monkey mind is an issue no matter what faith you are. You do not have to be a Buddhist–in fact, us Buddhists prefer that you don’t become a Buddhist unless you really, really, really want to–to realize that we continually replay tapes in our mind that are not helpful. This is a human experience. The most unhelpful voice in my mind was always that of my mother. The deal is that you can shut that down. It helps me to think of things this way: you don’t have to follow every train of thought to the end of the line. YOU can get off. Some times I have to scream to my mind GET OFF NOW!!
Your mind does not have to be a dog chasing its tail. We Buddhists use meditation to stop this insanity, center ourselves, and begin to look at what is just a weird perception on our part as well as ‘who’ is the perceiver. WE are our own WORST Madison Avenue marketing peddlers. We create narratives that are self destructive. When we become ideologues, we buy into frames that are simplistic and make us feel ‘safe’. You do not want to feel safe because that means all you’ve done is give the monkey a banana for awhile. Once the banana is gone, and the hunger sets in, your mind jumps around again. The key is to tame your mind through practice.
You do not have to be a Buddhist to apply the medicine to your mind that stops the manic monkey. The Buddha of this time–Shakyamuni–spent many years of meditation to figure out how we can end this obsession that makes us feel inadequate because we feel never have enough, we are never good enough, and things are never perfect. This is good because we don’t have to recreate the wheel. He’s given us the dharma wheel and the teachings. If we are lucky, we find teachers that have these skills and can pass them on to us. But, again, the essence of the teachings don’t have to be connected with Buddhism. It is all about being authentic and realizing that we have perceptions or ‘frames’ that do us no good. If we achieve a level of wisdom, we can see that some frames are not based in ‘reality’ but in the overactive monkey mind that is focused only on bananas.
What a Buddhist does through daily practice is try to peel away the layers to authenticity. Dogma and ideology prevent this. Testing and examining evidence enables this. Buddha framed this as a goldsmith testing for gold in a pile of stuff. We have to be present in our current situation and mindful of how we react to things. We also have to be aware of when we’re just looking for a salve, rather than a solution. We tend to like the easy, quick solutions compared to the wisdom that comes from real answers. People that rely on dogmas and wishful thinking and hope are not looking for authenticity. They are looking for drugs to calm the symptoms and not cure the disease. It takes hard work to become authentic.
So what Betty is saying that with age and perspective and a good disciplined mind, we can see the authentic and dispel the dogmatic. She was very practical. Her wisdom came from knowing what makes women suffer and what didn’t make women suffer. She taught me a lot and I was fortunate to know her. Her wisdom came from trying to relieve suffering too. That’s basically a very Buddhist concept.
Thanks much for your thoughtful response Dak.
I think I’m going to be practicing these skills very soon.
One small note – he probably didn’t use an automatic rifle, since most automatic rifles cost around 20,000 dollars these days. He probably didn’t use an “assault rifle” since they’re difficult to conceal. Both of which are reasons why automatic and scary-looking rifles are almost never used in crimes.
he had a glock
Dumping a clip and replacing it takes only as long as it takes to press the release button and slap another in. An extra 15 rounds makes some difference, but only about a decrease of 5 seconds or so.
You know my friend, that is knowledge that I’d really like the luxury of not knowing … why on earth does any one need that kind of fire power? What purpose does it serve in a grocery store?
Mostly to look bad for Youtube videos. Crime is usually done with much more prosaic weapons. The extended clips are basically useless for legal concealed carry or anything else, which also makes them mostly useless in crime, since criminals won’t carry around something that is obviously a gun from a distance. So, like I said, they’re mostly for show until somebody goes kooky-wa-wa.
“since most automatic rifles cost around 20,000 dollars these days”
a norinco mak 90 costs about $350 brand new. This is the chinese version of the ak-47, made of stamped metal. The most elite assault weapon is probably an AR-15 which costs between $1,000 and $2,000.
of course these are semi automatic not full automatic (which are still illegal without class 3 license) so it takes about 10 seconds to empty a clip of 30 bullets instead of 1 or 2 seconds with a full auto rifle.
I’m not surprised to hear it was a only a 9mm glock, an ak-47/ar-15/mak90 would have caused a lot more damage.
Mental illness is a bitch. He should never have been allowed to own a gun, this is something his friends/parents/teachers should have helped him with. He should not have been left all on his own he needed help.
I didn’t know, these weapons were so cheap, but so deadly.
Good thing he didn’t have something really bad, like a Saiga 12K or another semi-auto shotgun with a big magazine.
The Army must’ve rejected him for a reason. It’s so sad that we can’t get these people to some place where they can’t do so much harm rather than have them loose on the streets.
While we’re on this, I don’t think scattered, mildly-violent rhetoric from the GOP had anything to do with this.
Perhaps the root cause of all of this violence has more to do with the fact that the US government in general, and the person of the president in particular, is the most massive purveyor of violence on the planet today – whether it be Obama bringing Hope and Change to Afghan and Pakistani peasants, Bush democratizing with 500 lb iron bombs, or Saint Clinton killing half a million Iraqis via starvation, dysentery, or cholera.
The worst private criminal has nothing on these guys, so who really promotes violence – some GOP maps with crosshairs and/or some a-hole rapper in a music video, or the people who fill the news with a steady drumbeat of death, violence, destruction and have others trained and paid to further those ends?
Alright, but at the same time many continue to support the Never Ending War, while ignoring the fact that the soldiers once back are denied health care and their families too and that the WARS are bankrupting our country. Not to mention that the fact that they use ‘patriotism’ as a weapon for anyone that questions anything about the WARS and then there is that little problem about an EXIT PLAN.
So, no I won’t give Gleann Beck a PASS and Palin, knew better, it is clear she got the message as now she and others are busy removing those inciting messages that they used and continued to use until today as a CAMPAIGN motivating tool.
Any one that uses a violent framework needs to be held to account. I’m not sure that political party really matters.
I think the GOP does bear SOME responsibility. They believed that they could get everyone all riled up and then channel that into having them vote for GOP retreads like Newt. I think this might be the first of a series of events which will prove them very wrong.
Thank you! Exactly and I hope so!!! The fact they’re pulling everything off of all their sites is meaningful! Some lawyers have figured out they do have culpability!
They’re probably doing that more for common decency or whatever. There’s a legal principle that states that subsequent remedial measures (basically, fixing a flaw) is evidence of liability because it shows that you knew it was there, so they’d probably be better off legally to keep anything up that they can’t deep-six. Of course, that’s just my speculation.
I agree, anyone using this form of campaigning needs to account for it, regardless of party as you stated.
That is not quite right about the subsequent remedial measures — generally, subsequent measures aren’t admissible:
The reason subsequent measures aren’t admissible toward liability is because it would be a disincentive to people remedying hazardous conditions, if fixing stuff later could be used against them.
As a society, we are falling down when it comes to the mentally ill. We see people fall apart every day, and do nothing until they harm a lot of people.
I don’t believe the First Amendment is the problem.
Do you mean Second Amendment? IMHO, it is both a mental health care issue and a Second Amendment issue. We can improve the mental health system AND we can control access to guns–if we as a nation are willing to put a priority on those things.
I don’t think there could be anything worse than controlling access to guns. When I lived in Massachusetts, only the criminals had guns, they had lots of them, and they sure weren’t shy about using them. Everyone else in my neighborhood got to walk around like scared little rabbits and play 911 roulette. Same thing goes for California.
you begin by stating how the idealogues on the right are twisting this into politics, then you proceed to twist your idealogue to the left and blame the righties. You and they are what is wrong with america. This was a nutjob that had his own crazy motive delivered only by the demons in his head. It was an act of insanity and not influenced by anyone. He was sick. Anyone who tries to blame it on anyone is just as sick.
Society–through its leaders–sends out messages of approval and disapproval. When people in the media send out messages that looks like they approve of violence, racism, sexism, homophobia or islamophobia, it sends out tacit approval for behavior in that context. We’ve had many instances where inflamed rhetoric has led people experiencing psychotic breaks to act out ‘heroic’ acts because they see tacit approval by others. Now, it’ bad when the media does it, but when elected officials and office holders to this, it is behind bad. You can use over the top violent rhetoric and then walk away from it when some one goes over the edge and acts it out. That goes for any politician. Even ‘If they bring a knife, we bring a gun” presidential candidate Barrack Obama as well as “reload” ex Governor Sarah Palin. They’re called “leaders” for a reason. They lead people and they own the results. You can argue the nuances between cause, influence, encourage, or contribute to … but some where there’s some shared responsibility.