Too Much Breaking News to Handle (Open Thread)
Posted: April 19, 2013 Filed under: just because | Tags: open thread 93 CommentsThe younger brother is held up in a boat in the back yard of a Boston Suburb. You can only wonder what’s going through his head and how his older brother got him into all this. One part of Watertown, Mass has a bird’s eye view of history and tragedy. Is this kid an accidental terrorist? Information on his brother indicates a piece of work that was on the radar of the FBI two years ago andhad a police record of domestic violence. The one in the boat is an American citizen and seems to have the profile of a hapless pothead and shy kid looking for direction. I can only imagine the simplification of this situation that will come from the small narrow minds of the right wing. So, now we can debate how to frame two deadender brothers of an immigrant family vs. the Sandy Hook Shooter and all the rest of our troubled young men? This seems a lot more like that kind of shooting to me than it does an event like 9-11. Here’s hoping we can just get some real understanding on how to prevent these things and go beyond the memes of the day. How do these young men get so troubled that that go off and do horrible things like this?
peej
Carissa
ecocatwoman
mablue2
Mama Lopez
peggysue22
quixote
skydancingguestblogger
Mona (aka Wonk the Vote)
Sky Dancing 
There were a bunch of shots and now no sound and the helicopters have left. I think the guy must be dead.
“Nothing is moving in the boat.”
I’m watching local channel.
Multiple law enforcement sources say this is the guy. Their goal is to take him alive. No one knows yet whether he’s still alive or not.
I think every one has a sense his brother drug him into all of this and that he has some information that want badly.
Police asked people in nearby house to leave and let police set up inside their house. They have evacuated just about everyone on Franklin St.
Yes, I think that makes sense.
I talked to my brother. My older nephew wanted to know what “terrorism” meant. They kind of went over what has been happening. Neither kid seems upset, and the younger one isn’t all that interested. He said something like “let me know if there’s anything to worry about.”
I’m babysitting tomorrow night, so I’ll probably find out.
They might wanna check the Mr. Rogers thing out on 9/11 … my friend Sam is using it for his 9 year old boy. He has started asking questions.
I’m sure they’ve seen it, but so far neither of the kids is all that interested. It’s usually a mistake to offer too much info when kids aren’t asking for it.
Part of it is that they are aware that bad things happen in the world. They have had relatives die, etc.
Christopher G @C_Goscinski 39m
The suspect is gonna need a bigger boat.
The boat is on fire.
It’s funny, I saw that on twitter, but the local media isn’t reporting it. They can see the boat.
Ha,that is a funny one.
Although I have MSNBC running in the background, it’s gotten to the point where I don’t want to watch. I’ve had NPR on all day and it’s been non-stop about the missing suspect. They interviewed a couple of young women who went to school with him. He came to America when he was just 8 years old. He had friends and he was on the wrestling team. I’m convinced (soft-hearted?) that his older brother convinced him this was the right thing to do. I don’t know if I got this right, but it seems the brother is relatively new to the US, didn’t emigrate with the younger brother. Plus the older brother made a trip back to Chechnya (sp?) last year. I can’t help thinking this kid is scared & that the police – or one person – will take him out. I’m certainly not condoning what he & his brother did at the marathon or robbing the 7-11 or carjacking the SUV. I hope they take him alive. Yes, he should be punished but in an American court – he’s an American citizen. And then there is the guilt I’m feeling for feeling worried for him. I just can’t feel rage or an eye for an eye revenge. I’m going to turn on AMC and watch My Girl Friday and escape for a bit.
The two brothers came here together with their mother. The older brother went back to spend about 6 mos. with his father who is ill, but other than that they have both been here for 10 years.
Also, the police announced several hours ago, that the brothers did not rob the 7-11 or commit any armed robberies. It was a complete coincidence that the younger brother was seen on the 7-11 surveillance tape around the time someone else robbed it.
I can’t believe how inaccurate the national cable channels are!!
BB, They said on MSNBC that Boston police removed the shelter in place order earlier?
Is that right?
yeah, it seems they shoot the campus cop because they thought that he was after them since their pictures were out … what a press clustefuck!!!
Yes they started the MBTA and removed the *request* to stay indoors shortly before they found the guy. Someone saw him in the boat and called it in.
There wasn’t an order. It was just a request to stay indoors. People were walking around in Cambridge according to my brother. The corner stores were open too.
To add to the horrible news this week there has been a 7.0 earthquake in China.
were they sex toys or just kids toys?
😉
They got him, he is alive.
Suspect 2 is in custody.
Oh BB, it is finally over.
Not really, at least here. Funerals to come, lots of people still hospitalized, and trying to figure out why they did it.
Well, as far as the immediate situation.
I just hope he survives. I have to give the police credit for being patient and getting a negotiator to talk him into surrendering. If this were NYC or LA, he would be dead.
yeah, along with a few houses in the area burning down and a more innocent people in the area dead than were killed by the bombs
The former FBI agent on CNN ( who has been quite good in his analysis ) says the suspect is being transported by police, not medics, so it would seem that his injuries are not serious.
What houses burned down? I haven’t heard about it. Who else is dead beside the MIT cop and Suspect 1? Obviously, I missed some big stuff.
BB, you missed nothing, I believe Kat was speaking of what would have been the case in LA or NYC. The cops did a great job this time!
Oh, I understand now. I get the reference now. Sorry, Dak. Thanks Ralph!
It’s over, he’s alive, and in custody……..medic’s called………….don’t know his condition. 8:42 pm.
MSNBC: Suspect is alive and in custody. Medics checking him out. News sounds reliable.
He was covered in blood, according to Channel 5.
MSNBC says he has a gunshot wound, “loss of blood”, is now in an ambulance on the way to hospital.
I will leave the reporting to you, BB, since you have access to better local sources. The national news is too unreliable.
They said he was at Mt. Auburn, but someone just said they may have decided to go to Mass General instead. That would mean he wasn’t in that bad shape.
Wait, now they are ordering people off the sidewalk as if the ambulance might be arriving at Mt. Auburn. Sorry for the confusion.
Local reporters just got confirmation from LE that the kid is alive and on the way to the hospital. It sounds like he could make it.
He’s going to Mt. Auburn hospital in Cambridge, which is just down the street from the crime scene.
All the tea partiers who are cheering should be reminded that the cops, FBI, ATF, etc. are public employees.
Now local TV gets the word that the suspect is conscious.
Local media waiting at hospital have seen lots of police cars but no ambulance. It should only have taken 5 mins., so they must have taken him in the back way or something.
I didn’t see a single tri-corner hat in that crowd of cheering people. Those cheers seem well earned. 🙂
The ambulance just arrived at Mt. Auburn Hospital w/ Suspect 2 inside. 9:07PM
That report was wrong–sorry. Now reporting the suspect is bleeding badly, but he is still alive and conscious.
Crowds are lining Mt. Auburn St. cheering for the ambulance and police.
Father of Suspect 2 has been told that he son is still alive. Father tells his son “Tell the police everything. Be honest.”
Channel 5 just showed a picture of Suspect 2 inside the ambulance. He’s wearing an oxygen mask.
Hope he’s able to talk and doesn’t lawyer up immediately.
Charles Pierce on MSNBC now.
What did he say? I missed it.
CBS News @CBSNews 3m
JUST IN: No Miranda warning being given to suspect because government is invoking the public safety exception, DOJ official says
By By Constitutional rights . the kids gonna get some great lawyers now and what bout Jared Loughner who shot at a Congresswoman and killed how many?
okay, now I am advocating a regime change ..
I just saw drudge praising this decision. what the hell? My internet is very slow and showing signs of going down again. But the right wing is ridiculous as usual.
BROTHER BOMBERS: 1 DEAD; 1 CAPTURED…
Hailed from Russia region near Chechnya….
Bragged of Bombing…
PROFILE: ‘WORLD VIEW, ISLAM’…
Appears Sympathetic to Al Qaeda…
BOSTON JIHAD
That is the drudge headlines
I saw that, and I am angry. WTF?!
It went across MSNBC during the press conf. That has to be Obama’s decision. Asshole.
“IT’s a federal issue,” the guy says. Public safety/acts of terrorism exception, says monster Carmen Ortiz. Murderer!
There are a few questions the bomber needs to answer. For instance, are other bombs planted around the city? As well as, are any accomplices involved? I’m conflicted about Mirandizing him right off the bat so he could lawyer up.
Yeah and unfortunately, even though inappropriate, Graham was right on his tweet. Obama named it terror in his news conference earlier this week, and here we are.
I apologize Graham, now fix it.
Do McCain and Graham realize the Military Commissions Act THAT THEY WROTE does not apply to citizens? http://bit.ly/ZyuwBw
I was looking at the FBI internal memo, I didn’t see anything distinguishing citizens from non citizens regarding Miranda. Right now I’m feeling a little set up because throughout the day there was such a careful attempt to define terror as an act designed to induce terror.
Someone made the call to assign this as terror. Or Obama’s designation was enough.
What happened in 1984 (Besides Orwell’s “Big Brother” and what a coincidence?!) that got this Miranda bypass authorized?
The decision in 1984 was based on a rape case. The police asked the suspect where he hid the gun and the suspect told him. Then the policeman read him his rights. SCOTUS upheld the arrest. The exception is only for public safety considerations. In the case of Suspect 2, they needed to find out if there were any other bombs planted or accomplices, as Ralph explained above. You can read about it in wikipedia–I put the relevant section in a comment earlier (below).
I’m vaguely remembering it.
So it doesn’t have to be terrorism, just your garden variety dofus who might be hiding something scary.
That was the court decision, acc. to what I read.
It turns out that the “public safety exception” doesn’t mean he is treated like an enemy combatant. From Wikipedia:
However the Boston PD wanted to Mirandize him because he’s no longer a threat to public safety. The decision was made at the Federal level.
a kid that’s bleeding out is a public safety threat?
The Boston PD doesn’t think so. Did you see the look on the Police Commissioner’s face when he said “it’s a federal issue?”
I think Boston should handle this … for a hell of a lot of reasons …
They found some other bombs. Maybe they didn’t find them all so they can’t be sure he isn’t a threat of some kind now.
Charlie Savage @charlie_savage 6m
In statement, Lindsey Graham & John McCain call for suspect to be held as enemy combatant w/out Miranda warnings or appointment of counsel.
Yes, well that’s bullshit and has nothing to do with this question.
He needs a lawyer, STAT
@ggreenwald: DOJ: we plan to question him “extensively” without Mirandizing him http://is.gd/5nENWA see here http://j.mp/ZyuycF
Here’s an FBI explainer on the “public safety exception” to Miranda http://flip.it/V399m
The “public safety” exception to Miranda is a powerful tool with a modern application for law enforcement. When police officers are confronted by a concern for public safety, Miranda warnings need not be provided prior to asking questions directed at neutralizing an imminent threat, and voluntary statements made in response to such narrowly tailored questions can be admitted at trial. Once the questions turn from those designed to resolve the concern for safety to questions designed solely to elicit incriminating statements, the questioning falls outside the scope of the exception and within the traditional rules of Miranda.
I completely object to anything outside the very narrow questions being asked without the Miranda warning.
I thought the wiki entry I posted was a lot easier to understand. I still think it’s bullshit.
War crime on video: Israeli soldiers use handcuffed Palestinian teen as human shield as they fire at protestors http://bit.ly/12tpcjP
oh, and Carmen Ortiz will be the prosecutor?
I’m just hoping they don’t torture him. I wish MA was in charge of the prosecution instead of the feds.
omigawd, I just agreed with Glenn Beck
Glenn Beck @glennbeck 10m
We love you Boston! Praise God. How about praising God by reading an American, despicable as he is, HIS RIGHTS!
Here is the full text of the leaked Obama Justice Dept memo claiming a broad exception when reading Miranda rights: http://nyti.ms/dMOiTQ
Well hells bells…so do I.
“What terrorists want is to terrorize people; Americans always oblige” http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/04/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-is-found.html …
Why should all “Americans” be blamed for what the feds do? I’m an American and I didn’t vote for it. Anyway, the kid has been read his rights now, thank goodness.
I wish people like Gopnik would stop trying to push their own fear on the rest of us.
NBC reports that the FBI has read the suspect his Miranda rights.
Maybe he answered their narrow question about any remaining bombs? Or maybe the FBI decided fuck it. He will probably be arraigned no later than Monday, if not tomorrow, and would have an attorney present for that in any case. The kind of hysterical reactions have been a bit silly.
I haven’t been able to find any confirmation, but I found this at Think Progress.
The exception has been in effect since 1984.
Well thats a fucking relief!
The exception is only for a limited time and they can’t ask about anything they will use at trial.
Death toll in TX goes up to 14.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22219735
You guys on the east coast must be exhausted. I know I’m tired. I’m calling it a night. Take care of yourselves. Ralph, and everyone else, you too.
Have a good night!
I know you all are tired, but I put of a late night open thread up…should tie everyone over until late tomorrow morning.
Update on China quake: Earthquake in China leaves 156 dead, 5,500 injured