Live Blog: “The Adults Take the Stage”
Posted: October 13, 2015 Filed under: just because 184 Comments
The first Democratic primary debate will begin soon. Let’s watch together and document the highs and lows. Unless the CNN questioners are really insistent on avoiding discussion of important issues, I expect this debate to be much more substantive than either of the Republican debates so far. So does Brian Beutler at The New Republic: The Adults Take the Stage in the Democratic Debate.
Relative to the two Republican presidential primary debates already behind us, Tuesday night’s Democratic primary debate is expected to draw a modest TV audience. Back on January 31, 2008, when candidate Barack Obama was still a political phenom, CNN logged the most-watched presidential primary debate in its history to date, drawing an average of 8.3 million viewers. With the second Republican primary debate last month, the network nearly tripled that.
We surely have Donald Trump to thank for the disparity. Had he sat out the race this year, he would have deprived Fox News and CNN of his singular combination of fame, media savvy, insensitivity, and cringe-inducing combativeness. But even absent Trump, Republican primary debates would probably draw bigger audiences than their Democratic counterparts. It isn’t wrong or biased to say that Democrats make comparatively boring television. But that isn’t a strike against Democrats, either. It’s a reflection of the fact that the Republican Party, unlike the Democratic Party, is dominated by reactionary voters, which makes its candidates prone to saying or doing outrageous things out of a sense of necessity….
In the first Republican debate, Donald Trump stood by his history of making insulting comments about women, particularly Rosie O’Donnell, and his polling lead increased. To preserve his viability, Marco Rubio announced his opposition to abortion even in cases of rape and incest—and it worked. In the second Republican debate, two doctors (Rand Paul and Ben Carson) declined to correct and admonish Trump for suggesting a link between vaccines and autism, and Carly Fiorina burnished her credibility with conservatives by fabricating a ghoulish summary of Planned Parenthood sting footage.
The backdrop for the first Democratic debate also includes a governing meltdown in the House Republican conference, which has been unable to align behind a successor to House Speaker John Boehner, whom conservatives successfully deposed more than two weeks ago.
I don’t expect anyone to make personal attacks in tonight’s debate–although Lincoln Chafee is a wild card. I think the debate will be generally polite though. It won’t be “must-see TV” for those who like watching reality shows. People who are looking for some crassness and stupidity can follow Donald Trump on Twitter. I hear he’s going to live-tweet tonight’s debate.
The main thing Hillary needs to do is be herself. Bernie needs to try to get noticed by some non-white, non-“creative class” voters. As for the other three candidates, O’Malley needs to get some voters to know who he is, and Chafee and Webb need really need to explain what they are doing on that stage.
Bernie Sanders will be debating formally for the first time in a very long time. The Chicago Sun-Times: Here’s Bernie Sanders debating — in 1998.
Vermont senator and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders doesn’t have nearly as much debate experience as his rival Hillary Clinton, so when footage of one of his debates resurfaced, it had to be shared.
The footage is from the Vermont congressional race in 1998, when Sanders ran for re-election against Republican Mark Candon. Sanders ended up winning that race.
Not much has changed for Sanders since then, whether you’re talking about his policies or his often disheveled hair.
Tonight’s debate will be the first time the two leading Democratic candidates will be able to face off on issues like trade and economic equality.
What about Joe Biden? The NYT reports: Joe Biden Won’t Be Participating in the Debate.
CNN can put away the extra lectern. Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. isn’t coming.
Mr. Biden’s office said he would watch the Democratic presidential debate from his official residence at the Naval Observatory in Washington.
“Vice President Biden will host a high school reunion following which he will watch the Democratic debate at the Naval Observatory,” an Obama administration official said.
The high school classmates, a group fewer than 50, will not be staying for the debate, the official said, but it was not known who else, if anyone, the vice president might be watching with.
Time for creepy Uncle Joe to quit playing games.
Thanks to Dakinikat for this one from the WaPo: Joe Biden isn’t running for president, by Daniel Drezner.
The media is beginning to tire of the Biden story. It’s the media that stoked the Biden flame, but after two and a half months of it, they’re starting to grow weary of the non-story. As my colleague Greg Sargent noted five days ago:
Mr. Vice President, enough is enough. The first Democratic presidential debate is in five days. Tell us what you’re going to do already. …
But the game Joe Biden is playing now, in holding back on making his decision and telling us what he plans to do, just has to end, and fast. At best it’s becoming a farcical distraction that is beneath him. At worst it’s becoming a serious waste of our time.
And now the New York Times’ Maggie Haberman and Peter Baker have added to the drumbeat:
Perhaps not since Mario M. Cuomo, then the governor of New York, left a plane bound for New Hampshire idling on a tarmac in 1991 has there been such an extended and late-hour public agonizing by a major political figure over whether to run for president. Mr. Biden initially said he would decide by the end of summer. Now aides are researching filing deadlines to see if he can keep his options open into November.
The danger for Mr. Biden, as his advisers know all too well, is that intrigue can easily turn into fatigue. After 10 weeks of his being egged on by Democrats disenchanted with Mrs. Clinton and by a news media eager for a race to cover, Mr. Biden increasingly faces demands that he make up his mind.
When you’re being compared to Mario Cuomo on dithering, it’s time to fish or cut bait.
Again from the WaPo: Martin O’Malley, looking for a spark.
Here’s a phrase you’re certain to hear from Martin O’Malley after he takes the debate stage here: “15 years of executive experience.”
O’Malley, who served for seven years as Baltimore’s mayor and eight years as Maryland’s governor, routinely touts his record of getting things done and argues that’s what sets him apart from his Democratic rivals.
So far, that argument hasn’t resonated with many voters. O’Malley remains mired in the single digits in national polls as well as those from Iowa and New Hampshire. Even Democrats in O’Malley’s home state of Maryland are more inclined to support Hillary Rodham Clinton and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).
O’Malley’s campaign is banking on a breakout moment on Tuesday night, as voters across the country get their first chance to size up all five candidates seeking the Democratic nomination.
More about O’Malley’s experience at the link.
On the remaining candidates:
Yahoo Politics: The invisible candidacies of Jim Webb and Lincoln Chafee.
Somewhere in America, Jim Webb and Lincoln Chafee are alive and running for president. We know this because they have campaign websites, Twitter accounts and communications directors for their campaigns, although fairly uncommunicative ones. And on Tuesday night they will take their places on the stage with Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Martin O’Malley for the first Democratic presidential debate, fielding questions from Anderson Cooper. CNN has set a low bar to appear on the stage, requiring only that candidates reach an average of 1 percent in three national polls — a threshold Webb and Chafee barely meet. But one absolute requirement is that participants actually be running, which is why you won’t see “Other” on the stage, although in this compilation, he or she was running at a comparatively strong 2.5 percent.
Still, by some measures — such as campaign appearances, media visibility or returning reporters’ messages — it can be hard to discern the difference between either of these former United States senators and the elusive “Other.” Repeated emails to Webb’s spokesman Craig Crawford last week — first inquiring about his public schedule, then just seeking signs of life — went unreturned. Perhaps Crawford doesn’t like Yahoo News for some reason, although a reporter for Mother Jones magazine who tried reaching Crawford last week had an identical experience. The last public utterance of Webb’s I could track down, apart from occasional tweets, was a Sept. 28 appearance on Alan Colmes’ Fox News radio show, in which he agreed with Colmes that he was a long shot for the Democratic nomination but predicted that if he is the candidate, “I think we will win, and win big.”
Chafee’s aide Debbie Rich, described as his “communications consultant,” was only slightly more responsive than Crawford. After twice affirming that Chafee had no public schedule for the five days leading up to the debate, she was asked for evidence that he was seriously running for president and replied tersely: “He was welcomed by residents in Exeter, N.H., on Tuesday. Very good reception.” On Wednesday, Chafee took to Twitter to boast that Grammarly, a grammar-check website, had ranked his followers tops in grammar in their Facebook posts, and he followed up that news with a burst of commentary on issues as varied as the Mideast, mental health and trade policy, amounting to five tweets over two days. Donald Trump tweets more in his sleep. Chafee’s media coverage is so scanty that he couldn’t even raise a scandal last week when, speaking at a foreign policy forum, he came to the defense of the late Venezuelan strongman Hugo Chavez, a position as idiosyncratic, and considerably more fraught, as endorsing the metric system. Which he has also done.
Andy Borowitz at The New Yorker: All Eyes on Bitter Chafee-Webb Rivalry.
LAS VEGAS (The Borowitz Report)—When the curtain rises on the first Democratic debate of the 2016 campaign, all eyes will be on the bitter rivalry between the former Rhode Island governor Lincoln Chafee and the former Virginia senator Jim Webb.
While both camps are mum about the vicious hatred that has consumed the two men on the campaign trail, political insiders familiar with the Chafee-Webb blood feud are expecting fireworks in Las Vegas on Tuesday night.
“It’s always hard to make predictions about a debate, but one thing is guaranteed,” the political scientist Davis Logsdon said. “These two men cannot stand each other.”
Sources differ over what caused the white-hot hostility between the two former officeholders, but most agree that Webb’s two-per-cent support in some polls deeply rankles Chafee, who has garnered only one per cent.
Read the rest at the link.
That’s it for me. I hope you will join me to watch and comment on the debate.
peej
Carissa
bostonboomer
ecocatwoman
mablue2
peggysue22
quixote
skydancingguestblogger
Mona (aka Wonk the Vote)
Sky Dancing 
Is Chelsea, and Bill, in Las Vegas with Hillary?
I don’t know. I imagine so.
ABC News says Bill’s in Las Vegas, but not attending the debate. He’ll watch it on TV.
I wish I were sitting with Big Dawg to watch this.
Thanks again BB
No problem!
I will be in and out, because my Mom wants me to watch with her.
Thanks for this BB.
Can’t believe CNN has a countdown clock. They are so cheesy.
yuck.
2 1/2 hours debate………notice how they keep saying she’s flip floppying………Wolf, hell no.
No shit. They are pissing me off already. I don’t think I can make it through the whole thing.
Ditto. grinding my teeth for the last hour or so.
They are treating this like the Super Bowl or something. What’s with the millions of commercials?
I hope Hills crushes them. Sorry, I am still a Clintonista first, and a Democrat reluctantly.
I’ll join you with that, Ron.
Same here!
Will Bernie have his suit jacket pressed?
I thought it looked pretty rumpled when he came out.
Sheryl Crow singing the anthem? Really? Gawd this is cheesy!
Those black leather pants and the 3-inch heels were awful.
Whats up!
Kinda thought we could have skipped over the patriotic stuff.
I just got on to see LIncoln.
I wish I felt like drinking.
Hey,BBC it is deja by allover again for us.
It looks like a Trump production. Lotsa glitz, glam, and cheesy.
I just hope all the questions won’t be as stupid as I’m afraid they will.
Too much wanna, not enough gonna…
Webb as VP?
Don’t these underdogs have to be looked like that?
Webb is a good guy I think. Hills should consider him for the cabinet.
He leans pro life. At least he used to.
. Rosanne Rosannadanna. (It’s always something.)
Yeah man.
Nope, I just checked, it says he’s pro choice.
He did invoke the name of Reagan but I won’t hold it against him.
Webb also defended the Confederate flag during the recent controversy.
Sorry I don’t like him….he rubs me the wrong way…
Me to JJ………….that’s why I rated O’Malley number 2.
I was thinking the same BB.
Bernie says yooman. I wonder if he says yoooooge, like Trump? He sounds strident. Oh wait, they only say that about women.
Finally someone who looks Presidential.
Ah geez! Bernie keeps saying the same thing over and over again.
Maybe they should ask Bernie why he is NOT a Democrat.
Thank you!!!!
Bernie looked flustered to me beginning with the socialism question. After Hillary talked about saving capitalism from itself, Bernie basically repeated everything she said.
Oh, wow, Hillary is doing even better than I expected. Love her response about capitalism.
I thought it was great!
That was a great trade off and HRC came out!
I have nothing against Bernie but he tends to rant.
He needed to talk about racial injustice and LGBT rights, and he failed.
No Webb then. So, Bernie as VP-we need to get CEDAW passed.
Really it’s not a new thought, I don’t want to lose anymore liberal senators.
I doubt if Bernie would want VP. He’s in this to get attention for his economic issues.
Yeah.
Ditto, he should drop out, soon.
No Elizabeth Warren? I think Hills could use the help with the liberal wing.
Sherrod Brown of Ohio would be a good choice for VP, if he’d accept the nom.
He’s very strong for unions.
He’d be excellent.
Webb is the very picture of a stuffed shirt.
I was thinking the same thing during his last remarks.
I read somewhere that the creators of “The Wire” based Tommy Carcetti on Martin O’Malley. Now I can’t believe a word he says.
Ooh, Webb- affirmative action for African Americans only?
I missed that.
Uh oh. Guns. And Bernie gets the first question.
Uh oh. Bernie’s referring to himself in the third person. Did he forget his B12 shot today?
I caught that too. That’s basically a very bad slip up for a guy who says it’s all about the “people”.
If I hear this nonsense about about “mental health” when we talk about sensible gun laws I’m going to scream.
Hillz is swinging!
It’s way too early, but I think Julian Castro would be a good running mate.
I like Tim Kaine.
Like Castro too.
Julian would be a great VP, especially if Rubio gets the GOP nod.
Bernie lost it on guns.
Yep. He was spitting as he ranted.
He should have done some debate prep. Ooops!
Bernie’s debate rhetoric, from beginning to end, was just an abbreviated version of his stump speech. That will get old quick
So much better than the repug debte!
Someone needs to emphasize that if we lose this election it is very likely that the Repugs will have both houses of congress, the White House, and can stack the court. This is an incredibly important election. Too important to elect “The Hair Apparent.”
Oh fer fucks sake. Lincoln wants to work with the gun lobby. That will work.
lol
Walk away and leave it to the Arabs? Really?
All of this arguing over non proven data planted in the conservative Harvard Law and Public Policy student edited rag. There is no good data on the old chestnut that more guns equal fewer murders.
Hillz is the only one who sounds presidential. Just sayin’.
Absolutely.
yep.
I love her.
Wow, look what happens when you actually know what you are talking about.
O’Malley said, “Assad’s invasion of Syria”. Huh? Isn’t Assad the prez of Syria?
By being aggressive O’Malley is making Weekend at Bernie’s seem tired and kind of out of it. Jim Webb sounds a little belligerent, did he just pick a fight with the Chinese?
Unworthy. I take it back. Bernie is being a little passive though.
Anderson Cooper is trying to get everyone to attack Hillary. She’s handling it very well though.
He certainly is. She’s doing really well.
I just tuned in about 10 min ago, and that is what I was just thinking. One thing I must say, love the purple tie on Cooper, with the national coming out day the few days ago.
Plus, its red and blue together, so no political stance.
People forget that Hillary won every single debate in the 2008 campaign although every other candidate including the press was running against her. This is a woman who knows her stuff.
Unfortunately we are a giant Junior High School. They ignored the smart girl with all the answers in favor of the tall boy with the winning smile.
To be fair, also a smart boy, not a jock like GWB.
And its an actual debate! what
a nice thing!
One thing I have to say about AC so far, he hasn’t made this debate about the fucking Email server.
I was thinking the same thing. I’m glad NY Times reporters aren’t asking questions!
That’s true. I’ll give him that.
Nuclear material in the wrong hands as the greatest threat over climate change. Hmm. What does she know that we don’t.
It’d be faster, that’s for sure.
My ears are listening…….so far, Hillary # One, O’Malley # Two, Tied” Sanders/Webb
IMO, this format favors Hillz. Cooper’s rapid fire questions require quick thinking and LOTS of knowledge. Hillz has it and the others don’t.
yes! She goes on the attack on the Benghazi/email questions.
I’m really surprised at how poorly Bernie is doing.
Passive. Too passive.
Nice moment for everyone.
WHY. IS. BERNIE. YELLING. THE. MICROPHONES. ARE. WORKING. FINE.
Point.
Bernie remindes me of the way Larry David acted as George Steinbrenner on Seinfeld.
Well, that was sweet. Sit down Chaffee, HRC.
I know, right? Awesome, Hillz.
Yep. I think Chaffee can go home now. Yikes!
Bernie finally got the black lives matter answer right.
lol
O’Malley is the one who said “All lives matter.” He still sounds tentative.
He did, didn’t he!
Thank you, Bernie!
“Enough with the damn emails!!”
Webb, some of my best friends are African Americans…
Heh!
It’s not about you Jim, but thanks for sharing.
Hahaha!!
Bernie reminds me of a Jeopardy contestant
A vitriolic contestant.
He only expresses one emotion: anger.
Jeebus, Bernie is Mr. Soundbite. Quit yelling your soundbites and come up with real policy.
I’m really having a problem with Sanders and O’Malley shaking their heads and raising their hands while Hillary is speaking.
BOOM! To quote the Big Dog, ” I don’t have to take any shit from anyone on this issue…”
You got me sticking my big old tongue out and laughing.
Good punch and recover on keystone and climate change.
Ok, this will sound worse than it is, does anyone else think Chafee looks like a cross between Grandpa Munster and Houdini?
Another reason we need Madame President, she is impossible to bully.
Are there still going to be lots of press about how Joe Biden needs to get in? I’m wondering…
I think Joe is looking for an honorable way to decline to run. I don’t think he wants in.
Why would you vote for anybody on that stage other than Hillz? Bernie is a demagogue and the rest of them are cardboard cutouts.
Bad optics, You can’t be the old dude and do the ear cup. Seriously.
Good for Hillz about Snowden. She didn’t pander.
I agree Janicen.
Oh shit. Webb canceled Bernie’s revolution. 😀
Most of these folks are from the east coast, Aren’t they?
Dak, I am backing up a bit, but had the feeling that Hillary danced around glass Spiegel….which was part of wrecking the economy. What did you think about that go around?
I think an updated version of it needs to be considered. I could tell by her answers that this probably wasn’t her most wonky area. But she did make some good points about too big to fail banks.
I am glad you noticed that too. She did great, but this was the one area, she danced around it. After all she is our number one sky dancer!
Disregarding the point about Bill Clinton and Glass Steagall, I thought her issue with Glass Steagall was that it didn’t include the other institutions like AIG. That would suggest building a different kind of law to address several types of institions.
Yup. I think that’s the best solution. Build on the Volcker Plan.
Barney Frank said that Hillary’s plan will do what Glass-Steagall did.
She didn’t dance around it, she’s against reinstating it because it is out of date. Glass Steagall is old news. She’s come out saying we need a new version which includes insurance companies and other entities in the financial world that can do just as much damage to the economy as the banks.
Thanks for your replies. I just didn’t have it clear in my mind what the Act was all about. It went over my head, and the way Sanders was talking and poking at her like she didn’t understand, I thought she was dancing around it. I know that she has put together the best economic team that has broken down every aspect that deals with banks, etc. I think the Act was repealed because of the republicans wanting to deregulate, and I remember the Dodd Frank Bill.
Thanks BB, I am going to do a little more homework, and look over what Barney Frank said.
I want to go to bed, but we’re going to find out which candidate gets high. I hate to miss that!
This thing is way too long. I don’t think I can take much more.
I think all the non-Hillary candidates will be asking for fewer debates. Who wants his lunch eaten so often on national TV?
Absolutely. They must realize they need more debate prep next time.
Okay, this round Hillary, O’Malley tied: Sanders/Chaffee.
I like O’Malley. Based on one debate, I’m thinking he might be a good VP. But, more research is needed. Hillary 2016!
I think he did very well. He was better prepared than the rest. I think Bernie will realize he needs to prepare better next time.
WTF? So everybody gets to take a shot at Hillary?
Yup.
To be fair, they did the same thing to Trump.
Why should Hillary get the Crown…………do they say that about male candidates? I know they were talking dynasties….. and I heard Sanders, but damn he himself is a fucking career politician, and in the same fucking boat. Hillary is not running because her name is Clinton!
Dynasty as applied to the Clintons is another Republican lie. They are not related by blood. They are more like a Wonder Woman and Superman team-up than they are like a monarchy. Plus, they has to stand for election. Dynasty/Monarchy doesn’t even apply. At all!
Agree with you Ron. She’s doesn’t have Clinton blood lines, unlike the real dynasty of the Bush’s……….I wasn’t so sure about the damn question, and she spoke to it very well.
Bernie’s slogan should be “And get off my lawn!”
Absolutely. What’s up with this constant yelling?
He’s 74 years old. He probably can’t hear himself as well as everyone else can.
I think loud lecturing is just Bernie’s style. He was very repetitive, I suppose in an effort to drive home his points, but when he goes to that in the next debate, folks will see that Bernie is a script on a loop. From my perspective that style works better on the campaign trail environment than it does on a debate stage. I found his speechifying to be halting and a bit grating. His ideas are great, but in this environment not exactly practical. I compare his delivery style to listening to the old guy next door lecturing his wife on how to back the car into the garage.
I’ve also found the Bernie fans to be insulting, angry and total Hillary haters. I read a piece last week that suggested that some of his fans are old Ron Paul and disenchanted Rand Paul supporters. If true, that explains a lot.
Oh yeah, the Bernie peeps are all over the place declaring victory and pointing to online surveys as evidence that they won. It might be generalizing but as far as I’m concerned when I see a rabid Bernie supporter I think, “Sexist”. If they were true Dems, they’d get behind the only chance we have of winning but the dudes can’t get past her vagina.
Wow! I’m glad I stuck around to hear Hillary talk about Republicans trying to take away a woman’s right to choose.
But now Bernie is saying that Clinton doesn’t support family leave. F you, Bernie.
Everybody was standing up.
I’m going to bed. This is taking way to long and we know who won. Night all.
It’s5 am here, but it was worth staying up. I’ll look like a zombie tomorrow in the office.
G’nite Skydancers!!!
I’m so glad you came, MA Blue!
Thx BB. This is my home forever, no matter where I am.
Not even close. Hills by a mile.
Masterful.
Hillary is the winner. …………….O’Malley number two. Bernie Sanders has some good ideals but there is some links missing………Webb and Chafee are has beens.
I took notes and wanted to get into some statements, so maybe I’ll come back, if you want to hear them. I know it late.
Hillary made her case, and she’s carried the debate.
Thought it was great when Hillary came back on Carly about California having paid family leave for men and women since 2005, and it’s working.
I think Sanders really spoke in circles when it came to Snowden and NSA.
Hillary gets A plus on Russia, and was right about how Libya all came about. I couldn’t help but notice the differences about human intelligence on the ground and cyber intelligence on the ground. What Sanders didn’t understand Russia. He was saying something about Putin will regret what he has been doing? Say what? The Russians are not going to give up their warm water seaport in Syria. Better get that straight right off.
Sanders also said we need to “take back our government”…………damn I hate when a democrat says that, it reflects the republicans 24/7. Does it bother anyone else?
Thanks BB, Dak, JJ, and all you “kewl” skydancers. Hillary gets the vote.
Well, the Dems did use the “Take Back” first, then the Repugs co-opted it afterwards.
I missed the beginning and the end (and was listening over the radio), but from what I heard, the high point for me was “Enough with the damn e-mails” from Bernie and Hillary taking on the question on her evolving views – being able to change the mind with new information. I thought she could push it even harder as her strength.
The low point was Sanders talking about guns and mental illness.
Webb, Chafee, O’Malley – on the radio, it was sometimes hard to tell which is which.
Hey, all, great narration and commentary!
Sorry I wasn’t able to be here during it. No one tops Hills on debate performance!
I put up another post up top with reactions to Hillary’s performance. Come up and join me!