Today is the DAY to talk about NOTHING but GUN CONTROL
Posted: December 14, 2012 Filed under: Gun Control 46 CommentsI just got back from making groceries and vodka at Rouses by the Lake. The check out lines were one big conversation about the Elementary School Massacre. Can any one imagine this happening in any other country but ours?
There have been six mass shootings in 2012 and a record number of casualties. 
Today’s massacre claimed the lives of 20 children under the age of 10 and 6 teachers.
We must talk about gun control.
A society that can’t come to terms with even, really, talking about gun control in any reasonable way that doesn’t devolve into anger and name-calling and semi-apologies. A society that blames the timing in which we open up these discussions. People who “politicize” such matters, and people who fail to when they should. The shooter himself. The choices are endless and they all get their time in the blame spiral, because it’s really hard to know what to do with all of that dark awfulness. But blame doesn’t really help us cope, not in the long-term, and it certainly doesn’t help us fix things. Just look at the news.
Responding to reports of the Newtown school shooting, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said President Obama is watching the news “as a father” and that there will be a day in which we review the nation’s gun control policy, but “today is not that day.” So when is the right time to talk about gun control, or about gun violence, or about what caused the deaths of, according to the latest reports, more than 18 kids today? Because we keep putting it off, just getting angry at each other, pushing further into our little corners and defending things we think we know: If we feel that gun ownership laws in this country are part of the problem, we say lax gun control clearly led to this horrific event in a town thought by its residents to be “the safest place in America.” If we think people should have the right to own guns with minimal constraints, we say that guns don’t kill people, people kill people. And this is why we have to talk—really talk—about gun control: It’s not deniable that guns make it easier for people who want to kill people in large numbers to do so, and, for the record, the gun used by the suspect, a .223 calibre rifle, is currently legal—though it’s hard to imagine a good purpose for it being legal, the NRA has fought to keep it that way. It’s also undeniable, inherent to their very existence, that guns do make for a shift in any power dynamic: Why would one who defends gun ownership bother to defend his right to own guns unless it did in fact put him in position of control over someone who doesn’t have one, or make him “equal” to someone who does? And yet, sure, having stringent gun control laws—or, in a dream world, no guns at all—doesn’t mean people won’t kill people. It does, however, mean that fewer people will be able to easily acquire guns with which to kill people. How many scenes like today’s photo of bawling children being led to safety do we need before we can come together and say that that would be a good thing, that something really does have to change? If we can’t fix humanity, if we can’t make all people good, can we at least make it harder for people who want to do harm to kill? Can we talk about this without reverting to name-calling and aggression toward each other that a therapist might say stands in for how we feel about this shooter and what he’s done? Can we talk about this now? And if we can’t, why can’t we? Why haven’t we already?
The answer is the NRA and a group of privileged, rich white men who love their toys.
@TheReidReport The conversation I’m hearing today is exactly what it was over 20 years ago. Absolutely nothing has changed, sadly.
How much innocent blood does the NRA need exactly?
How many people will have to die before the NRA and the politicians they control do what most sane people understand has to be done? I have been asking this question for years. Will it be around thirty as appears to be the number in this most recent shooting? Or will it require the massacre of two or three hundred people, or a thousand? Given the right (or rather, wrong) circumstances and the right (wrong) weaponry, this last number is not impossible at all.
What is most tragic about this is that sensible gun legislation WILL happen, it is only a question of how many people have to die before the NRA drags itself into the modern world, and how long it takes the public to insist that politicians bullied into submission by financial pressures that should not exist in a democracy do something about it.
Incredibly, I have already heard people say that this could have been prevented if someone at the school had been armed. What kind of a country do we want to live in? One where teachers are forced to have guns in holsters under their jackets (the least that would be necessary) as they read Thomas the Tank Engine, where the principal has an automatic rifle leaning against his desk? OR a country where these insanely lethal guns are banned?
If it is the former, freedoms far more essential than those guaranteed by the Second Amendment will eventually be lost. Why stop at schools? Shouldn’t every doctor or waiter or ticket seller or bus driver – anyone working in a crowded environment – be forced to carry guns? But do you really want to go to the movies and see a submachine gun leaning against the seat in front of your, or see the guy downing a bottle of wine at the next table, fumble with his pistol? The prospect is terrifying, and in the end would lead to a country living in hiding, ordering life online rather than living it.
I have never met a single person from Europe who feels their freedom is curtailed by not having access to high-powered weaponry designed to kill large numbers of people. I have never met anyone who has lived in a country where the fear of getting shot is almost non-existent who would rather live in a country where they need heavy arms to feel safe, where a civilian arms race is taking place already.
It seems like the victims of spree killers are all asking for something to be done.
Statement from Mark
@ShuttleCDRKelly, husband of former Rep@GabbyGiffords: “As we mourn, we must sound a call for our leaders to stand up..
Exactly where is the “well regulated militia” also mentioned in the second amendment?
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Sky Dancing 
There are too many guns in this country. Let’s try to figure out how to reduce the number of guns. I think calling gun manufacturers and their lobbying arm, the NRA evil, is counterproductive. Guns are a produced by gun manufacturers. The manufacturers are corporations whose mission it is to increase sales and profits. That’s not evil, that’s true of every business in this country that wants to stay alive. They have to sell more and more guns. Once the public comes to realize that simple fact, I think people will start to understand that there has to be a limit to the number of these dangerous, deadly weapons in circulation. That limit must come from legislation. Maybe there’s no end to the number of smartphones or televisions that people can safely own, but guns are different.
Maybe that’s a starting point?
Sorry to reply to my own comment but I had to run out to the store and I was thinking about this. If we can agree that there are too many guns in this country and that we are going to continue to have gun manufacturers, why can’t the government have a say in how many guns are produced? If the government wants farmers to grow less wheat, it pays them not to grow wheat. If the government want them to grow less corn, it pays the farmers to grow less corn. Why can’t we pay gun manufacturers not to make so many guns?
Thank you, thank you cause I too am pissed.
There is so much conflicting information coming out. I have to go away for now…too upsetting. We loved Newtown and the people there….my heart is broken right now.
This is absolutely the day to talk about gun control. The NRA needs to quit demonizing those who want gun control and come to the table of common sense and decency.
Gun Control Is Not the Only Option: Let’s Talk About America’s Dangerously Gutted Mental Healthcare System | Alternet
Let’s indeed. Basically, we have no mental health system because the insurers don’t want to pay for it. We have 3 hour “admits” to hospitals, and no long-term treatment. I’m beyond fed up. And “insurers” includes medicaid and disability, which send mental health “benefits” to private corporate “carve out” policies which steadfastly refuse to cover inpatient admissions. I’m posting through my FB account, cause WordPress is messed up, so for those of you who remember me, this is BackBayStyle here.
Reading Charles Pierce sometimes makes me think there may be a God after all. Man is a moral giant.
The Bell Tolls For All Of Us
We have to unfuck our priorities so that protecting and nurturing our children goes on the top.
Ditto that!!!
There was a knife attack at an elementary school in China today.
Mike Huckabee is a morally bankrupt person. There is is something profoundly wrong with him.
http://gawker.com/5968633/mike-huckabee-says-conn-shooting-happened-because-we-removed-god-from-our-schools
Huckabee is a disgrace
I agree with your comment, Dak. The comments in your provided link were interesting. I don’t watch Faux, but it seems worthwhile to argue Huckabee’s point.
For example. in suggesting that this event was caused by the lack of religion in schools, he seems to be claiming this act is a retribution, as though he is qualified to judge. It would appear that if there is such, God was there, else how could he/she perform this retribution. This would preclude this being an evil act. Retribution would be a form of justice and therefore good. Since Huckabee approves of God, he must approve of this act.
Am I wrong here?
There was a time when one could just tsk, tsk at Huckabee’s kind of rhetoric, but now I think it’s deeply dangerous, unless demolished wherever possible.
I am still too numb to even talk about this now. I did see this and thought I’d post it. Other than that I am checking out for the time being.
NPR interviewed one of the Mother Jones journalists who worked on A Guide to Mass Shootings in America: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map
I echo all of your thoughts. It’s unbelievable to me that anyone could refuse to support gun control laws. I also agree that our mental health system is seriously broken. I fail to understand how the 2nd amendment trumps the right to life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness. Those innocent children had a right to life & it was snuffed out. The horrific experience for the survivors will, no doubt, haunt them the rest of their lives. Future Christmases will be forever tarnished by those memories. A couple of group counseling sessions won’t wipe those memories away for most, if not all of them. But, within a month or less most Americans will move on with their lives like nothing ever happened because there will be another news story taking the place of this one. What is it going to take to wake up the people of this nation? And I can’t help but think of the children living their entire lives in Afghanistan, many African nations & Iraq who face horrors like this on a daily basis.
Information is coming out on the shooter … he was evidently a person with a lot of issues. The guns were his mother’s …
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/14/what-we-know-so-far-about-connecticut-school-shooter-adam-lanza.html
CBS News @CBSNews
UPDATE: Federal official tells @CBSNews that all 3 weapons that Lanza had with him were bought legally, and were registered to his mother
His mother’s guns? I don’t want to speak ill of the dead but that was a remarkable lapse of judgement. Must have looked a lot different at some point.
More information about the shooter and his background. This article says his mother may have worked at the elementary school at one time, possibly as a volunteer, but was not a teacher.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/connecticut-shooter-adam-lanza/story?id=17975673
Thanks… the information still appears pretty conflicting.
I saw this on the Daily Beast. Let’s refer to the NRA as the “National Rampage Association.”
Works for me. I’ve seen Wayne LaPierre on TV and he always looks right on the edge of losing it.
Me too………..
Normally I would not think of commenting on such a huge tragedy as this on the day it happened, but since the people in the forums demanded it, I will. I love how people automatically blame guns and gun owners and gun manufacturers for tragedies such as this. They say things like “BAN ALL 50 ROUND MAGAZINES, WHO NEEDS 50 ROUNDS IN A GUN!” and “WHO NEEDS A .223 RIFLE, THOSE SHOULD BE ILLEGAL”. So smart people, I guess it would be ok then if the victim was killed with a .38 special round from a revolver with only 6 rounds then???? I guess losing one arm in a traffic accident is better than losing both, but shouldn’t our goal be to prevent the traffic accident completely? WITHOUT banning cars? Because thats what you’re trying to do by banning guns. Banning guns from legal, law-abiding gun owners is like banning cars because a small percentage of people are drunk drivers, or like removing the teeth from ALL dogs because a few pit bulls occasionally get nippy..
I’m extremely sorry for the victims and their families, but I and other law-abiding gun owners had nothing to do with it. And … it is entirely likely that if a responsible gun owner with a concealed carry license was near they may have been able to help resolve the situation. Its not a guarantee but its likely. Why punish the 99.99% of law-abiding gun-owners for the acts of the 1%? Why, instead of looking at the ROOT of the problem, do we go for the easy answer of “LETS JUST BAN ALL GUNS, THAT’LL FIX IT BEAVIS!!” News for you people, some people are just sick and they are going to find a way to kill other people no matter what, until we figure out what makes them tick and stop them. If getting rid of ALL guns is the solution, why are there so many murders in prison? No guns with the inmates, but yet many are murdered every year. Why … because some people are just violent and sick and will find a way to kill you with a toothbrush. HMMMMMM …. maybe we should ban all toothbrushes ???
An interesting fact: there seems to be another man named Ryan Lanza (this one is innocent) that lives roughly in the same area as the Ryan Lanza that is believed to be the shooter. If this is true and I were to say “WELL WE JUST CAN’T TRUST HIM BECAUSE HE’S NAMED RYAN LANZA” and I were to suggest that we take away his freedom (i.e. imprison him) because he has the same name as the suspect then I would be labelled as crazy and people would be booing me all over the internet. However, if other people say “WELL THIS PSYCHO KILLED PEOPLE WITH HIS GUN SO WE SHOULD TAKE EVERYONE’S GUNS AWAY” then those people are labelled as being right-minded and they get thunderous applause and slaps on the back for being so civic-minded and common-sensical.
By the way, these are probably also the kind of people that say that the drug offenders aren’t criminals, they’re just “sick” and need to be treated. … That being a crackhead or crackwhore is an illness, a disease, and that these people deserve our sympathy. And then they wonder WTF went wrong when that crackhead steals a gun from a law-abiding citizen and kills a homeowner for prescription drugs. Gotta love the irony. … And gotta love the freedom of a country where even the feeble-minded rabid anti-gun lobbyists (who add 1 plus 1 and get 23) are allowed their opinions. I do love this country and so I do salute your right to be an outspoken moron.
God bless the victims and their families from today and may he offer them comfort and healing. And may the killer burn in the darkest hottest corner of hell forever after.
yes … yes the way to end all traffic accidents is to remove all the stop lights and traffic lights and to make sure that any one can drive a car under any condition whatsoever …
and yes, of course!!! having a complete shoot out with every one owning guns in a room is going to save lives! of course! more guns and more shooters!!!
exactly … !!! now!!! go drag your knuckles across the floor of some body else’s blog … I’d rather not clean up after you again and take your belief in a stupid gawdbag that lets this thing happen along with you …
Ugh! What a dolt.
The dolts are springing up everywhere. What a deal, we get to hear what “normally” happens in Uber’s world, how convenient that in her world they get to have a quick hand, and are sharp shooters.
Go jerk off in heavy traffc gun nut! John Cole on our gun control failure.
balloon-juice: Three 9/11′s a Year, Every Year
The US has a gun ownership rate that’s outrageous compared to the rest of the word. We’re significantly higher than than country number two on the list: Yemen.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
Obama’s Reaction to Connecticut Shooting Sets Stage for Gun Debate http://nyti.ms/ZsxZ5j
CSMonitor.com @csmonitor
Elementary school shooting: What gun control laws might US voters support? (+video) http://bit.ly/UtPMm5
Yet by that same chart our rate of firearm homicides is not the highest – in fact we’re 28th. Honduras, for example has 1/12th the firearm ownership rate of the US, but their firearm homicide rate is over 20 times higher. France and Germany both have firearms ownership rates that are 5 times as high as England and Wales (and about 40% of ours), but their firearms homicide rates are lower (and only 2% of ours). Based on that, I think you’d have a difficult time establishing that there’s a strong correlation between rates of firearm ownership and rates of firearm homicide.
Furthermore, many countries that have lower firearm homicide rates than the US have higher overall homicide rates. The US ranks 108th in murder rate(just about at the median, in fact). So even if reducing firearm ownership would directly correlate with a lower rate of firearm homicides (something that is by no means clear), it might not have much effect on overall homicides. (Based on UNODC table of murder rates cited in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate).
We have the highest rate (by far) of firearm ownership, but we’re about average in murder rate. That’s a combination that (to me, at least) doesn’t lend a whole lot of support to either extreme in the gun control debate.
You can’t really draw that conclusion because of the other factors that should be identified, then plancedin a set of panel data and analyzed with the proper econometric model with the proper number of observations. Certainly, the criminal justice system has to be factored in as well as the level of domestic civil unrest in a country. It takes more than an eyeball to determine the strength of a correlation. Plus, you have to look at the relationship over time and not at one year’s worth of data. One year’s worth of data could contain outliers one way or the other. A correlation relationship is based on evidence over time. So, I’m not buying your argument at all. Especially since this is exactly the kind of model that I use to identify relationship between countries in economic variables so I actually know models well as well how to set them up.
I refer you to my earlier comment. I don’t think we should ban all guns or deprive you of owning one, but there are too many guns in this country. When does it end? When will gun manufacturers stop or even slow production? They won’t. That’s not what they are in business to do. They are in business to increase production and profits. The only way they can continue to do that is to convince people that we want to ban all guns and that it has something to do with the second amendment. You know, we have a first amendment too but that doesn’t mean our freedom of speech is unlimited. Same with the second. I’m proposing that we limit the number of guns. There has to be a limit. Otherwise we will become so saturated with them that they will be left lying around all over our society. Apparently nobody really wants to have a real discussion about gun control despite the title of this post, but we really need to start brainstorming right now on this topic. The number of gun deaths will continue to rise if we keep avoiding the discussion. History has proven this to be the case.
All I can think of are the small memories of Newtown, and the places we would go to and the people we knew there. All I can think of are the little kids who were killed, and what this means to the ones who survived. I think of the children’s parents, grandparents and family and friends. The pain is unimaginable…and I feel we will learn more about the killer and all the victims within the next few days.
Any talk of gun control needs to be paired with support for mental illness and health programs that deal with emotional/mental issues. These are my thoughts on this right now, I can’t think of anything else. Those children and those families…and that community need support now.
News from The Associated Press: Newtown: A special town shattered by tragedy
Bobby JIndal kills people without guns …
NOLA.com @NOLAnews
Louisiana cuts health care, Medicaid and hospice programs to rebalance budget http://bit.ly/SrUNjM
Tragically, one can:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9152469/France-school-shooting-Four-dead-at-Ozar-Hatorah-school-in-Toulouse.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_massacre
maybe I should’ve said repeatedly happen ….
Read this with a box of tissue close by:
here’s WAPO’s tick tock:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/gunman-kills-mother-then-26-in-grade-school-rampage-in-connecticut/2012/12/14/50d3b630-4625-11e2-8e70-e1993528222d_story.html?hpid=z1
A cat blog that I read on a regular basis posted this about yesterday’s horrific event in Newtown: http://coveredincathair.com/content/it-was-nicer-newtown?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CoveredInCatHair+%28Covered+in+Cat+Hair%29 She lives in Newtown, just down the street from the home of the shooter’s mother.
Thanks for this, Connie – heartbreaking. I posted it to my FB page, too.