Yeah, that’s right, I’m voting for the Oprecious …
Posted: October 27, 2012 Filed under: just because | Tags: third party 89 Comments
I live in a bright red state that gave John McCain his biggest margin of victory of all states. I grew up in states where Republicans won in almost all circumstances. If any one knows about symbolic voting, it’s me. That’s about all I’ve ever done. I’ve spent a lot of time voting for folks based on knowing my vote won’t do a damn thing. I just have always tried to vote for the right person as much as possible. Yes, in a lot of cases it’s been the marginally right person because the alternative is just stinky.
This time out, the alternative to the OPrecious is so horrible that I can’t even imagine how any one could fall for his shit, support his shit, or stand to be in the same room with his shit. This does not make me an Obot. No, I’ve not forgotten anything about 2008. I know his drone program and kill list program and gosh knows what else program having to do with our so-called war on terror is not “optimal” or consistent with my values. But, a vote fro Romney only makes that worse and it makes ABSOLUTELY everything else worse too. I’m not into voting based on giving a chance to making absolutely everything worse . I am all for making a statement to the people that are orgasmic about making absolutely everything worse.
Matt Stoller–who is taken seriously for some reason–has never written anything based on common sense, research, data, or reality. I hate to even write on this because he’s such a lightweight that calling him a pseduo intellectual is a kindness. This article is all over twitter and the web so it’s hard to ignore it. Thankfully, I don’t know any one that’s not making fun of it so that’s really soothing to my worried mind. I still can’t believe how so many people can confuse random variation with Romney Momentum so I know that the punditry is dense, but calling Stoller dense would be a kindness too. Matt Stoller shows that even a privileged upbringing and education are lost are many folks and not just Dubya Bush.
I know a lot of folks who are voting for a third party and I really do not begrudge them anything at this point. But, I will say that it’s not a good decision because Romney/Ryan represent nothing that I’ve ever worked for and fought for as a feminist and civil rights activist. They also represent everything I know is wrong via my education is a financial economist. I’m sorry Stoller, but you are really wrong and if any one takes you seriously, our country will surely pay for it. If we wake up to another Florida 1999 I will be really pissed and I will be forced to think of you.
So why oppose Obama? Simply, it is the shape of the society Obama is crafting that I oppose, and I intend to hold him responsible, such as I can, for his actions in creating it. Many Democrats are disappointed in Obama. Some feel he’s a good president with a bad Congress. Some feel he’s a good man, trying to do the right thing, but not bold enough. Others think it’s just the system, that anyone would do what he did. I will get to each of these sentiments, and pragmatic questions around the election, but I think it’s important to be grounded in policy outcomes. Not, what did Obama try to do, in his heart of hearts? But what kind of America has he actually delivered? And the chart below answers the question. This chart reflects the progressive case against Obama.
No third party candidate has a snowball’s chance in hell of doing anything but bringing down one of the two duopoly candidates. If you’re responsible for bringing down Obama at this point, you are really really really going to live to regret it. Well, no you won’t because you’ll still have a job and then you’ll just write about how horrible Mitt Romney is, and how did this happen? You won’t be the one worrying about all the consequences of a rape. You won’t worry about paying for birth control or praying that your job would just paid you what it pays the guy sitting next to you. You won’t be an unemployed teacher, firefighter or police man. You won’t be sitting in some middle eastern hell realm with a bunch of folks who want to kill you and you won’t be lying in your bed at night thinking about some you love that is. You won’t be the one who looses his mail service, his social security payment, or his medicare. You won’t be the one who has no recourse when they lose a job or a school slot due to racial discrimination. You won’t be the one continually asked for a birth certificate or an ID card to prove your citizenship. No, you won’t so just stay up there on your imaged high horse and spew shit without consequence.
Here’s Joshua Holland’s cogent argument for not voting third party this year. My emotional argument as a long time advocate of reproductive rights, women’s rights, and survivor of violence and rape advocate is that I want to see the Republican Party of and each of its candidates sent to a political oblivion hell realm so deep and so far that they will never get out. For that, I’m willing to happily vote and support Obama.
Daniel Ellsberg makes the case for this strategy here. If, on the other hand, you agree with Matt Stoller that Romney would be no worse for progressive America than Obama – a position that I find ludicrous – then do what you think is best. I won’t tell anyone how to vote.
The reason this is a terrible idea in 2012 is simple: there is now a non-trivial chance that Mitt Romney could win the popular vote but lose the Electoral College to Obama. It’d be like 2000 in reverse. Right now, Romney holds a small, 1-point lead in the popular vote, according to TPM’s polling average . But in TPM’s electoral college vote tally, Obama is leading 261-206 (a candidate needs 270 to win). Nate Silver’s FiveThirtyEight model gives a 5.3 percent likelihood of this scenario coming to pass. That’s not exactly a winning-the-lotto-type long-shot.
Now, in a perfect world, this wouldn’t matter. We have a quirky system, and the winner of the popular vote is, for better or worse, a matter of trivia. We select presidents according to the Electoral College tally, not the popular vote. And if you think Republicans would greet this news rationally, understanding that George W. Bush lost the popular vote in 2000 and acknowledging that we should be consistent in these matters, then by all means, vote strategically for Jill Stein or whomever if you’re in an uncontested state.
I think a more realistic view is that they’d precipitate a crisis, as the conservative media howled about how the people had spoken and their will must be respected. A concerted effort would be made to persuade members of the Electoral College to become “ faithless electors. ” Efforts would be made to split the electoral vote proportionally in any states Obama wins that are controlled by Republicans. We’d see more “ Brooks Brothers riots ” unfold. It’d be a huge mess, and I don’t think the outcome would be certain.
Again, I’m not holding a third part vote against any one. I am holding voting a Romney/Ryan vote against every one except my 90 year old father. The rest of you will be dead to me. PERIOD. But, any chance at ushering anything but complete obliteration of today’s Republican party during this election is a wasted opportunity.
Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, has gotten this far with a guile that allows him to say whatever he thinks an audience wants to hear. But he has tied himself to the ultraconservative forces that control the Republican Party and embraced their policies, including reckless budget cuts and 30-year-old, discredited trickle-down ideas. Voters may still be confused about Mr. Romney’s true identity, but they know the Republican Party, and a Romney administration would reflect its agenda. Mr. Romney’s choice of Representative Paul Ryan as his running mate says volumes about that.
Yes, this is what he represents.
An ideological assault from the right has started to undermine the vital health reform law passed in 2010. Those forces are eroding women’s access to health care, and their right to control their lives. Nearly 50 years after passage of the Civil Rights Act, all Americans’ rights are cheapened by the right wing’s determination to deny marriage benefits to a selected group of us. Astonishingly, even the very right to vote is being challenged.
Mitt Romney and the current crop of crapmiesters in the Republican party represent everything that could possibly be wrong in this country. Nothing about them should be left standing after this election. Matt Stoller would rather self-promote his ass-holiness than actually look at what kind of possible reality his ramblings and mental midget masturbations would bring. My belief is he’s an Ayn Rand groupie who just doesn’t want to hang around with the creepsters with radical right social agendas because their anti-intellectual ickiness might reflect on him. He should be ignored.
My vote is not going to Obama and everything and every person that is NOT a Republican because being a Republican is basically being everything I stand against. At this point, everything I value is so under threat that I’m not going to go on some third party suicide watch list. Btw, if you know any libertarians … get them to vote Johnson. I’m encouraging every one of them to know to stand up for what they believe knowing full well he’s economic policies would tank the country …. Guess why?
So hate me.
peej
Carissa
bostonboomer
ecocatwoman
mablue2
peggysue22
quixote
skydancingguestblogger
Mona (aka Wonk the Vote)
Sky Dancing 
Des Moines Register has endorsed Romney.
gasp … that’s surprising
Well, the obviously don’t know the difference between a real business and a parasite. That’s really sad. His economic vision? He has none. That’s one of the most obvious things about him.
and after that op ed about not sending extremists or extremist enablers to Washington .. how absolutely hypocritical
first time since 1972 they’ve endorsed a republican
wonder if it’s because David Yepson has moved on from the paper
That’s possible. I’ve not really read it much other than during political season. They were always refreshing compare to most of the crap that would come out of that part of the country. We used to get it even when moved across the pond to Omaha. The World Herald was the worst paper I’ve ever read.
lol
I read the endorsement and it’s schizophrenic. They endorsed Romney but with Obama’s plans. Their only reason it seems that they believe Romney will be better able to compromise with Congress, if he proposes plans the Dem Senate will pass, because the GOP House won’t work with Obama.
Worst reason I’ve ever seen for an endorsement, even with some nice rhetoric about Romney’s centrism as MA governor.
They are nuts if they think Romney will do anything but side with all the Republicans all the time and try to get a few blue dog dems to cave.
Democrats will never compromise on the Ryan budget. There would be rioting in the streets.
I totally agree with Dak. I wouldn’t even want to be in the same room with anyone who votes from Romney. And I’ve been telling you guys how bad he is since before the primaries. I would actually choose to die before voting for him. That would be like voting to establish fascism.
Here’s a list of all the current endorsements by papers across the country of both candidates.
Great Post Dak and I’ve already voted for OPrecious and for all of the same reasons you are voting for him. And if a vote FOR policies that support everything you’ve believed in and worked for your entire life becomes cause for people to “hate” you, fuck them and the horse they rode in on. I’m with ya, Sister. We’re all with ya.
If Romney becomes president, the country is doomed. Bush almost broke us completely. More of that is going to wreck it for good.
I completely agree Dak. Since the rise of the TP and the extremist agenda of most GOP loyalists, it’s impossible for me to vote for anyone but Obama and Dems. There is no hope for a 3rd party victory, no matter who the candidate, so we’re left to select the candidate who can win and whose policies most align with our own. That sure in the hell isn’t Romney/Ryan. Like you, I know Obama won’t win in might bright red state, but casting a vote AGAINST the party of Romney,Ryan,Palin,Bachmann,Santorum,Gingrich,Cain,Sununu,Trump,Mourdock, Akin,Walsh, MADE ME FEEL GOOD!!!!!
I said the same thing to my wife Dak! I tell everyone that will listen to me that if they vote for Romney…we’re screwed!
I have daughters. I believe in a woman’s right to choose. I believe a woman’s body is HER OWN and that NO MAN has a right to tell her what she can and can’t do with HER body! As a father of two beautiful young women and a husband to a wife who I not only consider my best friend,my love, my confidant, my EQUAL,….We, my wife and I, instilled that in our daughters as soon as they were able to walk!
There are other reasons why i DESPISE Romney and the Republican party but what I described above is something we as a family will NOT compromise on!
Yes…I am furious at Obama for his lack of spine when it comes to those that put their faith in him to be an advocate for them. But I always knew he wouldn’t. But the alternative is something I cannot stomach!
I’ve been close to Jumping ship many times. either by staying home or throwing my vote to someone..Green Party..that has no chance in hell of winning but I can’t. How can I look at my daughters, my wife and tell them I failed in my duty as a husband and a father and not stood up for what I believe in?
I left the Democratic party back in 09 but came back as of late…So yes. I will vote for Obama today and go back to M-Effing his policies ( if he doesn’t do right by the people ) tomorrow!
As I sated…The alternative is too damn scary!
Hey Red Dragon, Don’t be such a stranger here. Hang around, you’ll like the place! 🙂
Hey Red, so good to see you’re back in action. I’ve missed you, so seeing you at Joseph’s place and now here – sublime. And don’t kid yourself you were missed during your sabatical. Time to get back in the saddle pardner.
Thank you Ralph.
I’ve been coming here for some time now. I just didn’t “chime” in…so to speak.
And HT…..Many thanks to you!
I’ve started to ramp up my “Rants” over at my place as you can see. 🙂
Ohho, you’re really back. I haven’t been to your place for awhile, but watch out.
The link is over there under the Friends’ Blogs and he survived the huge cut I made a few months ago. BB, JJ, and I threw out a lot of them as things became more obvious.
I feel the same way. I have daughters! One is an ob/gyn and some of these nuts would put her in jail if she was protecting the life of the mother which is her job!! It’s freaking scary! And I’d be turning my back on my entire education. They are so wrong for jobs! for people!
“If you’re responsible for bringing down Obama at this point, you are really really really going to live to regret it.”
And it won’t take long.
How brain dead do you have to be at this point to remotely pay any attention to Midget Matty and his lunatic positions. I guess this is why Alan Grayson lost his last election. He and Matt decided to throw it for the greater good. Self-righteous asshole!
I’ve already early voted for Obama in my red state. It’s the least I could do.
Stoller makes David Brooks look like a man of the people and a power brain.
Grayson threw the election? That’s the first I’ve heard of it. I heard an interview with Daniel Webster, who beat Grayson in the last election. If I didn’t know what a complete SOB Webster is, I would have thought he was a reasonable Republican. He’s an artful liar. I’m voting for Webster’s opponent, Val Demmings, the former police chief of the city of Orlando. Last I saw, she was doing good in the polls. Fingers crossed she will win. Grayson is expected to win his race too.
That was sarcasm because of Stoller’s surrent idiocy. Sorry 🙂
Wow … this 108 year old woman just voted for the first time in her life!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/27/joanna-jenkina-108-year-o_n_2026613.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003&ir=Politics
That’s a great story. Obama should pay her a visit.
What a wonderful story! By the way Dak, track 13 was great, thanks for sending it to me. I’m very impressed.
Thanks … I appreciate it. Wish that track would’ve not died on the studio floor, but Destiny’s Child broke up in the middle of the session so there went one of the thing I wrote that an artist actually sang and performed the way I wrote it … Richard started writing the song and it was all white girl twang … he wrote the hook and gave up on it and gave it to me … I brought it home for him as a totally different thing. Told him I’d written a rap bridge and he looked at me like I was nuts but then gave me gold stars for it … which he does rarely. Michael Jackson looked at it for awhile too.
I thought so too Kat, that stinks that it never came out.
I’m with you too. Pre-primary debate season, I had decided not to vote for anyone for president. However, once the Repugnant debates began, it was obvious that all the candidates were certifiable lunatics. Voter suppression, while the Repugs commit voter fraud. Forcing women to carry a child of rape to term. Trivializing rape, trivializing so-called women’s issues as unimportant (as if equal pay for equal work, education & the number of children a woman has aren’t economic issues), lying, destroying Medicare, Medicaid & Social Security & wanting to not only repeal the ACA, but to return to a system even more broken than prior to the passage of the ACA – insanity. Wiping out unions & thus destroying the middle class. Ending regulations that attempt to keep our air & water clean & workers safe at work – the epitome of heartlessness. Turning our elections into an estate sale? I have visions of The People living in tenements while our plutocratic overlords live in gated communities protected from The People by the police departments and/or National Guard forces. And they are not satisfied with owning & controlling America. They want to own & control the entire World. The movie Network comes to mind – Americans need to take to the streets, yelling I’M MAD AS HELL & NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE!
Obviously I cannot vote in your election, but if I could I would vote Obama. Not because I think he’s the best, but because as you have ably pointed out, he is the less evil.
I met a young woman yesterday who I watched grow up, and she was grousing about politics and how it impacted our lives. My response was make sure you investigate the platforms of each party and vote. Her response was that she had never voted and didn’t intend to start but she had every right to complain (she is 30 years old). My response was one that my mother and grandmother gave to me and that I give to my children – if you do not vote, then you have no right to complain. If you do vote, do so on informative decision, because if you do not inform yourself and the party you vote for does whatever affects you detrimentally, you have no right to complain. You had a chance, and through ignorance chose the wrong route.
Dak, great thought provoking post.
I got tossed off the confluence for suggesting the same sentiment as you suggest here dakinikat. I dared suggest that Obama was not responsible for all the corporate influence that has plagued the democratic party and that he was the lesser of the evils we are facing in this election. I also noted that Bill Clinton and others were also patially responsible for some of the conditiond that led to the economic meltdown due to the bank deregulation that took place in the late 1990s. I suggested that although I am still furious about the 2008 primaries, I had to move on and think about what was best for my daughter and the country.
She called me delusional, and continued to insult me. She suggested that I hated the Clintons and claimed of course that Obama is the root of all evil and has to loose this election so the Democrats can fix themselves. I was in shock that she attacked me the way she did. It was like going to Daily Kos back in 2008 during the primaries, You can’t express a different opinion respectfully without being attacked. What gives? I noticed that lots of people who I used to read are no longer there. Could this type of thing have happened to them too?
Wow! You are certainly welcome here!!!
Thank you! I feel so bad about what happened. I was utterly shocked!
It’s great to see you, Kendall J!
Affirmative. Then again, after so much of it, you really don’t want to read how horrible Obama is anymore when you can see with your own lying eyes it’s not really the case. He will never be FDR but he’s better than his opposition now.
Exactly!!!! I guess I feel bad because RD is such a talented writer and generally a deep thinker. Its hard to see her so overtaken with hate that common sense is no longer an equalizer.
Believe it or not, some of the places that the others went to are worse. They are basically tea party republicans that love Ryan and Romney now and are convinced they are the only one’s still holding out for Hillary’s dream. I’ve never seen such ignorance, anger, and hatred in my life. That’s why they do belong in the Republican party. That’s their hallmark.
I’m an independent still. However, I have a moral core and there’s no way I don’t see Romney and Ryan as the enemy.
Yes, Definitely. It did. it’s why I left.
Well thank you for welcoming me here.
Hey Kendall, I noticed the same thing, and I was just a lurker. Good to see you again!
Thank you, I’m glad to be here!
Sorry for being OT but this outrages me. President Obama should not be having to deny rumors started by the neocon douchebag William Kristol. Why oh why can’t we have a better press corps?
Yahoo News: Obama did not deny requests for help in Benghazi: Aide
Dak, I also want to say I agree with you completely. I think I once compared it to , not cutting off both arms and legs to make a point. I care to much. I think I have made my choice clear in my comments for a while. Everyone in my family supported Hillary but voted for Obama in 2008 except my crazy nephew. I’m sure he will vote for the Twit. his vote will be in Tennessee so whatever.
I’m in a very blue state, New York. So last time I voted third party, knowing that my state was voting for Obama. It was a protest statement over what went down in the 2008 democratic primaries without voting republican. But I’ve moved on now and refuse to live with senseless anger and nagetive energy.
That’s how we feel here but there are obviously some folks out there that have been eaten alive by anger poison. It’s shocking and sad.
That’s it exactly, and to accuse them of completely turning around you hear protests of “oh no we aren’t! We’re *still* Democrats” and similar crap. Bullshit. You can’t practically fellate Romney on your blog and and still say you are essentially a Democrat who just doesn’t like Obama.
Yep. Senseless anger just eats at you and is a very unhealthy way to carry on. Eventually, you either give it up or become something you don’t want to be.
Maybe Obama will take Virginia after all the Ro-mentum talk.
TPM: WaPo Poll: Obama Still Above 50 Percent, Holds 4-Point Lead In Virginia
I hope so!
Dear Kendall:
Riverdaughter has her head up her ass and has for a very long time. You have to consent to her every thought, word and deed or else you are chastised, ridiculed, and made to look like a fool. So please, don’t feel upset. You are only one of many.
The specious argument that with a Romney presidency the Dem Party is all of a sudden going to finally rise up and embrace the principles that are what most of us cling to is a fantasy. With 4 years of that brand including another “rise of the Vulcans” like Rice, Senor, Bolton, etc., not to mention the Tea Party lunatics maskerading as “politicians”, and the balance of th SC hanging by a thread, the Dem Party will have one hell of a time trying to survive the first 100 days never mind 4 years.
RD has some “magical thinking” going on for her thinking that by 2016 Hillary Clinton will rise like a Phoenix and save us all. My guess is even if she should we are still up against a party that should they manage to “win” this one will be marked by more chicanery than we have yet to witness. Another act of delusion on her part.
She hates Obama. Period. He could cure cancer tomorrow and she would question the veracity since it comes from him. Reliving 2008 is still alive and well in some quarters and the alternative is super scary which makes a third party selection all the more unappetizing if it the race is as close as they predict.
As with dak, my vote is AGAINST the creeping crud of Christofascism and the decline of civil rights and not necessarily FOR Obama who could have done better but has 4 years to prove it once again.
Take heart, Kendall. You are not alone in joining the “escapees” that got rather weary of being told we were idiots because we happened to raise a question or wrote something that went against the beliefs of RD who prefers to believe that she is a whole lot smarter than the rest of us.
R
She’s become exactly who she used to complain about. She acts like the goons at Daily Kos in 2008. Its not that I’m a big fan of Obama, because I’m not. But I am a liberal feminist and I care too much about human rights to not see that he is clearly the best choice this time. But, thank you Pat. Its good to talk to you again.
Man, KendallJ, I haven’t been over there in a long time, it’s pretty scary over there. I also read the exchange, I couldn’t believe it. She actually asked you if you were still commenting, good lord!
I looked for the exchange … it must’ve been expunged like everything I wrote over there and contributed and all the hard work i put after every one quit doing anything for a year except me and bb
I couldn’t find it either. It’s been a long time since I visited RD’s blog. It brings back a lot of bad memories of 2008. I prefer to look forward now.
Left there a long time ago, like when the Clown started taking control.
Whose the Clown?
MYIQ
Eek! I thought I replied to you Kendall, it was MYIQ who was the clown.
Hmmm, I’m not seeing my replies to KendallJ…
Don’t know why, but they ended in spam…oh yeah…you said the M word. lol
Ohhh!!!! tee-hee!!
That is our one banned word.
That is our one banned word.
So I found out! 😆
True dat!
Well said, dak. I read the post earlier but had to run so I couldn’t comment. The differences between the two candidates are so stark, so extreme, that it has come down to this. Like you, I want to see the Republicans lose and lose big in this election and the Tea Party get wiped off the political map.
Welcome, KendallJ. Look at your departure from the old site like a divorce. We all went through it. You leave because you just can’t take it anymore and after a while you wonder why you wasted so much time over there. The good writers came here. Don’t feel bad about her ranting at you, wear it like a badge of honor. I became convinced that she was deeply disturbed when she railed against her own mother for drawing Social Security when it wasn’t her mother who was employed it was her father. Her mom was a stay at home mom so why should she get to draw on her dad’s contributions? I shit you not.
Thank you Janicen. The best writers did come here. I’ve read here a few times in the past and haven’t commented. I’ve been busy learning a new job and haven’t commented much anywhere for a long time. I started to notice that the best writers were fleeing from the confluence, but thought the volume decline was more because the 2008 crap was over and people were generally moving on. I didn’t realize that they were being chased away. But I am so glad that I’m seeing so many good people here that I used to enjoy conversing with years ago. I see MAblue2 and Bostonboomer are here. I used to love to talk with them as well as others. Maybe this was all a good thing. Thanks for your support.
We were driven out by the insanity.
Dak: I had my La absentee ballot here and was seriously, oh so seriously considering circling the oval for Stein because, as you said, it’s obvious that Romney will carry the state. However, the more and more I thought about it I could not do it. I just figured that as much as I dislike the guy as President, and as much as I have not forgotten 2008, still, seeing Romney as the Repub candidate I wanted my vote count as a vote against Romney as Pat and others have said.
I think we are all in much that same boat. My vote won’t really count either, but I had to do it.
Same here. There’s no way Romney could come even close to winning Mass., but I feel I have to vote against him. I also feel that Obama has grown in some ways and I think he’s finally learned that the Repubs will never compromise with him. I’m voting for Obama and I couldn’t care less who hates me for it. Anyone who votes for Romney is dead to me. I can see third party if you’re in a state where it won’t matter, but I feel I must vote against Romney/Ryan–for moral reasons. Their attitudes toward women, children, elderly people, and the poor are just plain evil. Period.
That gradually dawned on a lot of us here after BB started showing us how bad he really was in MA.
Yes, BB showed us that the “Romney was a moderate Governor In MA” meme was untrue.
That gradually dawned on a lot of us here after BB started showin.g us how bad he really was in MA.
Yep, somethimes you gotta dance with the one what brung ya.
Was MYIQ one of those who started claiming that Sarah Palin was a brilliant feminist?
He and the rest of his tea bagging friends.
I remember seeing a bit of that and thinking it was a bit weard!
Well, much as I like and respect you, Dak, I disagree. Of course, a vote for Romney is out of the question. Never in a million years would I vote for him. I also understand that Paul Ryan is a dangerous simple-minded zealot. Awful beyond belief.
But I will not vote for a war criminal. Period. I will not vote FOR someone who kills with impunity, who lets the Bankster crooks get away with gambling away all the house money and then gives them more of our money, who has no respect whatsoever for women or the unemployed or the poor or minorities. He has done nothing for you or for any of us so far and he will simply sell you out the day after election – again. That’s who he is.
I will not be a part of that “lesser of two evils” schtick. If Obama wanted my vote, he should have done something to get it. He didn’t.
I am sorry you took this road. I can’t agree so I’ve cut down my commenting here until the election is over. Whoever wins I will be back. If it’s Obama, I’m afraid you are going to be horribly disappointed when he implements the Grand Bargain. If it’s Romney, we can unite again in fighting his policies (which are no different, really, than Obama’s), like the old school Dems we are.
I now sometimes comment over at riverdaughter’s. I know there is a lot of bad blood. I know it was caused by that little authoritarian creep myiq who is far from the towering intellect he thinks he is and who is indeed a vicious little troublemaker. I also know that riverdaughter did not manage the situation well at all, choosing to back that loser and his insane worship of Palin far beyond the time any sentient being would have sent him packing. There is no doubt about any of that. I also acknowledge that she has an inability to relate to others in a particularly civil manner.
However, in my opinion, she is spot on about Obama. I personally despise the man. He is as big a fraud as walks this planet, and he has harmed this country – most likely irreparably. He – and his BFFs Donna Brazile and Rahm Emanuel and Timmy Geithner – have pretty much destroyed the Democratic Party.
It is not my problem to save this country by voting for Obama. First, the country will not be saved. Second, he has not earned my vote. Third, I have my own values. if enough of us express our disgust with the Democratic Party, perhaps it will realize it has to change back to what it once stood for. I will vote for those Dems who represent Democratic values. I will never vote Republican.
I can respect that. I’m not really a Democrat so I guess I don’t really care what happens to the party. I’m not fan of Obama and many of his policies but I’m not convinced that he’s as soulless as Ryan and Romney and not re-electing Obama will result in utter catastrophe. Conservative Democrats will work across the aisle with him. Republicans will not work across the aisle with Obama. It’ll be four more years of gridlock vs. four years of assault on women and minorities and a train wreck economy vs a long slog upward via a natural recovery. The Democrats will never join together and fight. They never have and they never will.
Thanks for the reply. I had all kinds of trouble with my computer this a.m. and didn’t think my comment even got through. I was about to rewrite it in condensed form when I saw that it had finally appeared.
You may be right about the Dems, most of whom aren’t really Dems anymore. (I forgot you weren’t a “Dem.”) I do understand your reasoning on Obama, especially since Ryan was added to the Repub ticket. My reasoning is different, that’s all. I don’t see us as on different sides in terms of overall goals and ideals.
We shall see what happens – to be continued . . . .
I let your comment through. I don’t know why it ended up in spam. There were a couple in there from other people too.
I think it IS my “problem” to try to save this country from utter ruin. I’m amazed at how personally many like you take Obama and how hotly that dem 2008 primary rage still burns. Elections are like crap shoots; you take the best shot for a win.
I was and am a staunch Hillary supporter and even she supports drones. It’s like that song says, “You don’t always get what you want, but you get what you need”, if you vote for the side that shares with you the most values.
dak, to add to our argument and to offer mjames an update if she is open to one, the U.S. is suing Bank of America for $1B over Countrywide’s ‘spectacularly brazen’ loan program, and is taking action against other lenders as is spelled out in this link:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/10/25/3619258/bank-of-america-mortgage-fraud.html
These efforts will be squashed if Romney wins.
I was over the 2008 primaries long ago. I don’t get why some people can’t stop relitigating it. Jeeze, get over it. Nothing can change it now. Hillary and Bill have moved on, for Pete’s sake. I’m sure they find people who are still screaming about the 2008 primaries embarrassing–if they even know about them.
Obama was unprepared, but he has obviously worked very hard on foreign policy at least. He’s still very cautious on the economy, but I think if he is reelected we will see him use executive orders to do more, as he did with immigration and contraception. I’d like to see the filibuster gone, frankly.
I will be voting, as I always do, for the candidates that best represent my values. At this point that would not be Obama – or Hillary either. As far as I can see, Obama has no values, so how can he and I share any?
I will vote Dem for president when a Dem is running. Meanwhile, I will vote Dem down ticket when that Dem deserves my vote. Whoever is elected president, that is not my fault. I didn’t pick these people. I fought against them. All of them. I do take Obama personally. He has lied repeatedly to me and every other Dem in this country and has done nothing that represents my party at all, at least the party I knew when I first voted 50 years ago.
But, see, I am willing to accept that there are those who decide it is better to have a total sell-out war criminal like Obama than the R&R madmen. I do understand. I think you should accept that I feel differently and have made a different decision. Ultimately, though we have different takes on this particular election, we are not on different sides.
And, no the BoA thing is nothing to write home about. It’s not a criminal case, and the amount is piddling compared to the amounts stolen. There are no bankstas in jail, Jamie Dimon continues on with stealing and gambling our money, and I believe the statutes of limitations have run on any criminal charges. No one is going to jail. No TBTF bank has been broken up. No laws have been enforced or improved. Gambling continues as usual. It’s a cynical pre-election move to garner a few votes, nothing more. (They’re savvy businessmen, remember?)
We need public financing of elections and a ballot with a paper trail. Then we might have a chance.
I don’t know if you directed that at me, but I respect and accept your choice. Everyone should vote his or her conscience. But I can have no respect for anyone who votes for Romney. Luckily I don’t know anyone who would vote for him, because I live in the state where he was governor. We know who and what he is.
From MahaBlog:
From the Lemieuxlink: