Sunday Open Thread

Hello, we had Thanksgiving at my house today…I have been cooking since yesterday. So let’s just say this is an open thread.

33 Comments on “Sunday Open Thread”

  1. NW Luna says:

    I’ve discovered the Joy of Missing Out. Black Friday isn’t for meWe don’t need to jump on the festive treadmill and pretend we’re having a good time

  2. NW Luna says:

    Good day for this here.

  3. NW Luna says:

    • OG says:

      Electoral college was demanded by the small states, located mostly in New England.

      • NW Luna says:

        I think his point was that the EC was adopted when slavery was still legal and so is a relic from that time. Slaves were counted as less than a person (1/2 or 3/4?) then for population. All the states were pretty small then.

        • quixote says:

          Three-fifths. The idea being: not a complete person so of course they have no rights. But in terms of counting population for congressional districts or other population-based benefits, the whites there could benefit from all the three-fifths people who added up to thousands.

        • OG says:

          I thought that might have been his point. In 1789 it was legal in most all the states. Virginia, New York, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts I believe were the states with the largest populations. The smaller states like Rhode Island and New Hampshire did not wanted to be eclipsed by those with larger populations. But I am not a history expert.

  4. OG says:

    I don’t eat any of the turkey. Nasty big birds. A bit of ham, sweet potatoes soufflé, mashed potatoes, rolls, coffee, pumpkin pie, and pecan pie are enough for me . Then coorie up on the soda and watch the Detroit Lions lose to somebody while napping. A good day.

  5. NW Luna says:

    And some sweetness:

  6. dakinikat says:

    • quixote says:

      God help everybody. I thought Dump couldn’t go lower than family separations. Now we have teargassing.


    • NW Luna says:

  7. dakinikat says:

  8. dakinikat says:

    • quixote says:

      Given that Russia has taken over Crimea and has the land on the other side of the strait leading to the Azov Sea, they control that whole sea. So the Ukrainians sending ships in there is a bit like, say, Russian ships sailing into San Francisco Bay.

      What I’m saying is that the Russian reaction is unsurprising in the circumstances.

      Any evidence that the Ukrainians were actually trying to make a statement that Crimea is not Russian by doing that? If not, it seems like a maneuver designed to poke a bear with a stick. And with the Dump watching teevee in the White House, I’m not sure who’s going to leap in to help them deal with things.

      • NW Luna says:

        I don’t get the analogy of SF bay. Russia invaded Crimea and stole it from Ukraine not too long ago.

        Trump is Putin’s lapdog so he will blather-tweet that he believes Russia didn’t fire on Ukrainian ships. NATO? I wonder what they’ll do without the participation of the US.

        • quixote says:

          The Sea of Azov is a bay with a fairly narrow strait to the Black Sea. The Russians have or are planning to build a causeway (? bridge??) across it, just to give an idea of how narrow it is. The Azov sea is about the size of Lake Michigan, so a lot bigger than SF Bay.

          Crimea: it’s far from as simple as “belongs to Ukrainians.” It has a very complex history at the crossroads of Turkic, Slavic, and other groups. Before the Tsars took it over (not sure when, 1800s?) I think the single largest ethnic group was Crimean Tatars. There were lots of Ukrainians there too since it was a major port and hub of trade. Not a few Russians. Somewhat melting pot-ish.

          When the Soviet Union was carving up its “autonomous” republics in its empire, first Crimea was Russian. Then Khruschev decided it would force Ukrainians to be forever loyal to the Motherland if Crimea was part of their “autonomous republic.”

          I don’t think he ever imagined they’d take it super-seriously and run with it because the Russians have a huge naval base there and (duh) any attempt to mess with that would bring down the full force of the Russian military.

          In terms of numbers, until recently (1950s?) there were probably always more Ukrainians than Russians there, but if numbers count it should have been a Tatar republic? It’s imperialist of the Russians to claim it, but it’s not as simple as “they stole it from Ukrainians.”

          • NW Luna says:

            Probably depends on if you’re Ukrainian or not (she says flippantly). However the Russian “annexing” was not done without force or the threat of even more force.

            Kerch Straight, if I understand correctly, is supposed to be open for Ukraine’s use per accord.

          • NW Luna says:

            Agree that the history of this (and so much of the former USSR and Eastern Bloc lands) is extremely complex.

    • NW Luna says:

      • quixote says:

        “A bully with no regard for laws and norms.”

        Exactly. We kind of already knew that, right? The US Admin is pretty much in the same place, at this point. So who’s left to offer help to Ukraine? Only the Europeans, that I can see, and I’m not sure how much they’ll actually do.

        What I’m saying is I’m not sure where they go from here. If somebody gets Putin to de-escalate he gets to act all big about it, which is obnoxious. If Ukraine de-escalates, it’ll be another blow to morale. If nobody de-escalates, well, there may be a whole lot more refugees headed in to Europe. Very very very Not Good.

    • NW Luna says:

  9. NW Luna says: