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Crazy Tragic Day: Solemn Open Thread

Posted: July 20, 2012 | Author: | Filed under: Breaking News, open thread, SDB Evening News Reads | Tags: , , , , , , |27 Comments

Evening…

Obviously it is not a good evening, the shock of today’s news out of Aurora is still seems unreal.  Tonight we send our sympathies to the families of the victims, our thoughts are with the survivors, and our prayers go out to the ones still waiting to hear about their loved ones.

I will just post some of the latest updates on the Aurora shooting, and we will just leave it at that.

First off, here is a few of the latest news items:

Is This Aurora Theater Shooter James Holmes’ AdultFriendFinder Account? | Mediaite

The crowd-sourcing magic of Reddit may have unearthed another side of alleged Aurora movie theater gunman James Holmes. Several Redditors dug up what might be Holmes’ personal account on AdultFriendFinder.com, a social networking site for casual sex seekers. The profile says that he is looking for a “fling” or “casual sex,” and his bio quote says “Will you visit me in prison?” The picture sure looks like Holmes but I am no expert on adult friend finder (I swear) so let’s evaluate.

UPDATE: Mediaite has learned that law enforcement are investigating the AdultFriendFinder page to determine its authenticity.

Colorado Movie Theater Shooting: Suspect Bought 4 Guns, 6,000 Rounds of Ammunition in Past 60 Days – ABC News

Suspected Colorado movie theater gunman James Holmes purchased four guns at local shops and more than 6,000 rounds of ammunition on the Internet in the past 60 days, Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates told a news conference this evening.

“All the ammunition he possessed, he possessed legally, all the weapons he possessed, he possessed legally, all the clips he possessed, he possessed legally,” an emotional Oates said.

Authorities have yet to identify all of the 10 victims who died at the theater. Two other people died at the hospital, for a total of 12 dead. Thirty people remained hospitalized, 11 of them critical, Oates said.

This next link is from the town of Aurora, it goes to a list of links about the massacre put together by The Aurora Sentinel…

Batman Movie Massacre – Aurora Sentinel

Aurora Massacre Coverage

National Coverage

The Tragedy in Pictures

The Suspect

The Victims

Witness Stories

A “timeline” of the  suspected Colo. theater gunman -From The Denver Post  It is rather thin…

Here are a couple articles about the shooter, as seen through people who knew him…

Colorado shooting suspect smart but ‘a little weird,’ classmate says – latimes.com

James Holmes, held in Colorado shooting, known as shy but pleasant – The Washington Post

And this last link goes to a op/ed:

After the Colorado massacre, it’s time to hit the Pause button | OregonLive.com

This is an open thread…

27 Comments on “Crazy Tragic Day: Solemn Open Thread”

  1. JJ Lopez Minkoff says:
    July 20, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    I know we all could use a laugh, but I just could not muster up a comic post…

    My thoughts go out to Beata, I hope you have heard from your family members…so tragic…we are thinking about you and your loved ones.

  2. JJ Lopez Minkoff says:
    July 20, 2012 at 9:19 pm

    Here is a few links you may want to check out:

    Cannonfire: The “Dark Knight” massacre: Right-wing pundits belong in Arkham Asylum

    Going to the movies is a break from reality. Until reality starts shooting. – The Washington Post

    ‘Dark Knight’ take: Pop culture no antidote to pain – CNN.com

  3. northwestrain says:
    July 20, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    So the guns and ammo was “legal” — well whoopee do.

    There will be no answers — This really reminds of the other mass murderers — there is just no reason any of us sane people will be able to understand.

    But what I do know that it is too damned easy for the batshit crazy individuals to get weapons of mass murder (I don’t give a damned about the PC of the words).

    I’m still asking why this batshit crazy living in an alternative reality didn’t come to the attention of someone in authority. Someone someplace must have noticed that something was wrong. What about his family?

    We have a mental health crisis in this country — when someone can get by until he becomes yet another mass murderer statistic — he is a symptom of a much larger problem.

    There is no community health system where I live — when my husband was the fire chief he also got Aid or first Responder calls. So I knew how many calls were mental health calls — and there were a lot. Attempted suicide (cops were called as well – and the cops are NOT trained — not at all — not even a minute of training about mental health calls). The patient is evaluated and then dismissed — not unless someone really in bad shape and a danger to self or others. Often even then the person gets no treatment. And yes the worst does happen. The local hospital is a joke. This is a nation wide problem — what I saw and heard over the Fire/Rescue radio was typical for Rural areas. In the long run ignoring the elephant called mental health costs all of us money and worse.

    One would think that in a sane world someone who suddenly buys weapons for mass murder should have come on some sort of radar.

    I hate the NRA — for making weapons of mass murder so easy for yet another batshit crazy individual to murder.

    There’s a British TV series which has tackled the way crazies live in their own world — Wire in the Blood. It is a British crime drama. The police psychiatrist tries to explain to the cops that the motive for the batshit crazy person has no bearing on the real world. I’m a fan of British TV — what can I say?????

  4. apishapa says:
    July 20, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    I live in Greeley, CO. I went to sleep last night watching the news I guess. I woke upp at 3:30 am to channel 4 newswoman freaking out about the shooting. I thought it was a bad dream. I wish it was. I am so tired of hearing about how sad everyone is, we fell the victims and their families pain,,,but let’s not get carried away and try to regulate guns. Good god, guns do kill people. They kill a lot of people. Every goddamned day. yes, people kill people. People with guns kill more people than people without guns. I also don’t see the NRA making any effort to keep those killers from having guns.

    • bostonboomer says:
      July 20, 2012 at 10:18 pm

      I totally agree. I too woke up hearing the story, because I fell asleep with the radio on. It felt like a nightmare. I can’t read about it anymore because no one does anything to prevent these massacres. I’m glad a live in a state that actually has tough gun laws. Even so, we still have plenty of shootings.

      I’m also waiting to find out more about the perpetrator. He is at just the right age for developing schizophrenia. He was a top performing student whose grades had suddenly gone downhill. He behaved oddly and avoided contact with other people. I read that he was self-medicating with Vicodin. So…I’m reserving judgment till I find out more.

      • NW Luna says:
        July 21, 2012 at 1:58 pm

        Astute observations about his behavior and the development of schizophrenia.

        In Seattle last month we had 6 people shot to death, 5 at one cafe, in one day by a man who had been off his mental-health meds for some time. He didn’t have semi-automatic weapons or more people would have been killed.

        I’m still shocked — tho why should I be now — at how easy it is to get the weapons the Colorado shooter had.

  5. northwestrain says:
    July 20, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    How much and how often does the government spy on us?

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/surveillance-spirit-law/

    There are several reports that spying on citizens is continual — with the massive data collection and shifting being built in Utah — how much data could be collected and cross filed?

    Yes they have — once perhaps — probably the “once” is ongoing.

    And yet with all this data collection and spying — someone who goes out and buys stuff in anticipation of mass murder doesn’t make a blip on the government radar?? What on earth is the government spending so much of our tax dollars to collect mostly meaningless data??

    Oregon’s Senator Wyden is the only one it seems who is asking about the Feds spying on all of ua.

    • RalphB says:
      July 20, 2012 at 10:42 pm

      The problem with all the “data collection” is the volume of information coming in would be like trying to drink from a fire hose. Without proper analysis, “data” is just noise and is useless.

  6. Pat Johnson says:
    July 20, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    My heart bleeds for the victims and their families in this tragedy. It is indescribable.

    But in watching some of the interviews that have taken place, and understanding that these victims are going through shock, it is amazing to listen to some insisting that they escaped further harm because it was “god’s will”.

    No, god did not permit some fool to buy up weapons as this young man did, enter a movie theater and shoot at random everybody who was there. Let’s place the blame on who and what exactly did.

    The NRA who sees withholding sales of automatic and semi automatic as an issue of “freedom”. When anyone with a grudge or a mental issue can easily lay hands on as many weapons they can purchase then storm a school, a theater, a place of employment, a public outing, and blast away then we no longer have freedom but live in a state of fear.

    While it maybe comforting to insert “god” into the equation, this is only an attempt to overlook the daily violence that occurs in this nation alone, day after day, without looking at exactly what this “freedom” entails.

    The freedom to attend church, a movie, a lecture, or just be safe going to the store without fear that some disgruntled, unhappy, mentally deranged individual is out to kill because he is armed to the teeth is the exact opposite.

    A closer look at our gun laws along with a much closer look at the NRA should be on the agenda and stop with the excuse that “god” directed this assault while taking the lives of some and sparing the lives of others. It did not happen this way.

    It happened because of the easy assessibility to buy weapons and place them in the hands of anyone who wants to use them in any fashion they see fit.

    Guns that are capable of taking the lives of many in a few second should never be sold for public consumption under any circumstances.

  7. RalphB says:
    July 20, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    John Cole:

    It occurred to me tonight that we live in a country where the Supreme Court has decided the 1st amendment does not give you the right to yell “fire” in a crowded movie theatre, but the 2nd Amendment gives you an unfettered right to amass enough guns to shoot 71 people in the same theatre.

    No wonder Europeans think Americans are fucking stupid.

    • Pat Johnson says:
      July 20, 2012 at 11:44 pm

      We are fucking stupid.

      Listening to some of those interviewed you would think “god” was Sam Peckinpah directing a movie that somehow “spared” them but was in favor of killing and injuring 71 people while the perpetrator had over 6,000 rounds of ammunition at his disposal.

      That’s as much as a battalion would need during crossfire

      Another statement was “if it weren’t for god I wouldn’t be here”. No, if it weren’t for the NRA representing the gun industry with the approval of congress and every state legislature that is in bed with them 12 people might still be alive and the other 59 would not be clinging to life.

      Citing “god” gives comfort to the NRA and those lawmakers who just won’t stand up to that lobby.

      • NW Luna says:
        July 21, 2012 at 2:19 pm

        In the never-ending argument over gun control, tragedy can become a talking point. Luke O’Dell, a spokesman for the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, a Colorado-based group that fights gun-control measures, said private gun restrictions may well had “tragic consequences” in the shootings.

        He noted the theater chain that owns the Aurora movie house bans firearms on the premises. “Potentially, if there had been a law-abiding citizen who had been able to carry in the theater, it’s possible the death toll would have been less,” he said.

        Jerk. Yeah, right. OK, there are instances where it might work. But most likely, if you sit in the movie theatre when someone behind you opens fire with an semi-automatic assault weapon and sprays bullets — you’re going to grab for your concealed pistol and shoot back? You’d likely be dead before you could draw.

      • bostonboomer says:
        July 21, 2012 at 2:42 pm

        The guy was wearing a bulletproof vest, a helmet a gas mask and other body armor. It’s not likely anyone was going to kill him in the dark with all the noise and smoke bombs or tear gas or whatever was in the canisters.

      • northwestrain says:
        July 21, 2012 at 3:46 pm

        That stupid jerk — he is so out of touch with reality.

        Shooting back when under fire takes a lot of training (and hardening of natural instinct) — the military spends a lot of time training soldiers for combat.

        Logic tells a sane person that the death toll would have been much higher — plus as BB mentions — the guy came prepared. It seems like this is a trend — body amour used by the psychopaths (unless they turn the gun on themselves)

        From reading about the victims — at least three military personnel were in the theater — one is presumed dead and the other two were treated and released. Unless the military training has undergone a massive change since my dad retired — part of basic training is to learn how to react under fire.

        So the cure for psychopaths who might be sneaking around is to go everywhere — is more guns???????????????????????????

        At this point I really don’t know who is more out of touch with reality — NRA freaks or the psychopaths that they enable.

      • bostonboomer says:
        July 21, 2012 at 3:50 pm

        I doubt if this guy was a psychopath. I could be wrong, but, based on what we know so far, I think it’s a lot more likely he had a serious psychological disorder than a personality disorder.

      • northwestrain says:
        July 21, 2012 at 4:53 pm

        BB you are correct — but then that schizophrenia is technical. I guess I’m reacting to this article

        http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/psychopaths-and-mass-violence-ideolo

        If this person is really living in an alternative reality — then only he will understand why he has stepped so far out of accepted human behavior (outside of war) became a mass murderer.

        The majority of schizophrenics are self destructive.

        I’m thinking that some of the current crop of mass murderers are writing a new chapter — the legal system will be struggling with his sanity or insanity. The police tell us a lot of planning was involved — so that could mean to the legal sense — he was “sane” enough to understand and plan.

        His behavior that of a psychopath — and the reason for his behavior could be due to a brain disease like schizophrenia.

        From the wikipedia entry — psychopathy — and I betting that most people don’t understand the last quoted paragraph below — but they do understand the word psychopath.

        While no psychiatric or psychological organization has sanctioned a diagnosis of “psychopathy” itself, assessments of psychopathy are widely used in criminal justice settings in some nations and may have important consequences for individuals. The term is also used by the general public, in popular press, and there are many fictional portrayals. This popular usage does not necessarily conform to the clinical concept. According to the Scientific American, although psychopathy is associated with and in some cases is defined by conduct problems, criminality or violence, many psychopaths are not violent, and psychopaths are, despite the similar names, rarely psychotic.[5][6]

        Although there are behavioral similarities, psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) according to criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders are not synonymous. A diagnosis of ASPD is based on behavioral patterns, whereas psychopathy measurements also include more indirect personality characteristics. The diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder covers two to three times as many prisoners as are rated as psychopaths. Most offenders scoring high on the PCL-R also pass the ASPD criteria but most of those with ASPD do not score high on the PCL-R.[7]

  8. riofinnegan says:
    July 23, 2012 at 8:15 am

    Despite the Violence, I believe we can still rise up and become Super.
    http://finnblogg.tumblr.com/post/27829005759/why-we-fall-batman-and-the-violence-around-us

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