Sunday Reads, It ain’t easy…
Posted: February 20, 2011 Filed under: collective bargaining, Environment, Foreign Affairs, just because, morning reads, Water | Tags: charlie chaplin, film, internet, journalism, water shortages, Wisconsin protests 95 Comments
…being Wisconsin cheezy. Yes, its Sunday Morning and Minx here with your morning reads.
First off, if you missed Boston Boomers post late last night, go read it now…she has posted “some links to the important events that have taken place today in the many ongoing protests.”
If you are a Wisconsin Teacher you are having one hell of a time right now. It has been difficult watching these hard working public sector/state employees getting trashed on the news. The way these journalist and media celebrities talk, you would think these people are just like Marie Antoinette. Living the high life while the private sector folks work and pay for everything…leave out the fact that if the real rich Marie Antoinettes out there weren’t getting all those damn tax cuts…things would be a hell of a lot better for everyone.
Doctors are throwing their support behind the teachers. You may have already seen this:
Wisconsin Doctors Tell Teachers: Call in Sick to Continue Protests – ABC News
Also from ABC News:
Largest Protest yet Fails to Sway Wis. Lawmakers – ABC News
And over at Huffpo, is this another “Beer Summit?” As one of the supporters of Walker’s bill states: “Beer is something we can all agree on.” Madison Puts The Civility Back Into Discourse
The slogans they had chanted had highlighted the stark differences that separated them.
“Kill the bill!” cried the opponents of Republican Governor Scott Walker’s proposal to cut the pay and benefits of unionized public workers and sharply reduce their collective bargaining rights. “Pass the bill!” supporters of the proposal shouted back.
But aside from a few outsiders — like AFL-CIO chief Rich Trumka here to back opponents of the measure, and Andrew Breitbart, the conservative provocateur who appeared at the Tea Party-backed rally to support Walker — the people on hand were from Wisconsin itself and these neighbors were remarkably civil despite their sharp disagreements.
Wisconsonites are united, even in times like this, by many things, including a love of University of Wisconsin, Madison, athletics and the program’s strutting mascot Bucky the Badger; a devotion to the Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers NFL football team; and, of course, a love of beer, brought to the state by its German settlers and honed by brewers whose names are part of American history: Pabst, Schlitz, Miller and Blatz.
So when the opposing rallies ended here on Saturday, many of the demonstrators retired to the numerous bars in the Capitol’s shadow, like The Old Fashioned Tavern & Restaurant, with its 50 beers on tap — all from Wisconsin — and another 100 in bottles, 99 of them from the Badger state. The one other, from neighboring Minnesota, is listed under imports.
Over pints of Evil Doppleganger Double Mai Bock and Lost Lake Pilsner, knots of demonstrators debated the questions that have galvanized union employees across the country and brought the business of the state legislature to a standstill. Is Walker’s proposal part of the Republican’s effort to put the state’s finances in order, a repudiation of the state’s long history of progressive politics, or the latest example of that tradition?
Middleton High school student Jacob Fiskel joins in the protests and explains to Greta van Susteren why it’s important that teachers and public workers do what they have to, even if they stay at home if they don’t want to lose their right to collective bargaining because of Gov. Walker’s outrageous proposal to try and destroy unions. He’s gone as far as reading the National Guard against them. I found it interesting that when Greta asked Jacob what the state should do to fix the budget problem, Jacob called out the rich. Now that’s shared sacrifice.
Greta: In terms of your state, do you have some suggestions on how to deal with your budget crisis?
Fiskel; Yes I do. I think we should really consider raising taxes on the rich. I know the argument is that it’s going to hurt small businesses, but with this plan you’re taking spending money away from teachers and public workers and small businesses are going to lose millions of dollars. But if we can raises taxes on the rich we can afford it and we can start to pay for our budget problems. Earlier Gov. Walker has already cut a hundred million dollars of corporate taxes and that’s one of the reasons why we’re in this mess.
Greta: What do you think is going to happen with those Senators in Illinois? DO you think they should stay in Il. or come back to Madison to vote on this?
Fiskel: I think they should do whatever is necessary for them to be able to talk with Gov. Walker and the Republicans to make sure that our demands are met and to make sure that the public workers of Wisconsin get the respect that they deserve?
Greta was not aggressive with Jacob and let him speak his mind. He even said that the actions Walker is taking would affect the quality of teachers and education on the whole state. Doesn’t Jacob make much more sense than let’s say, Rep. Paul Ryan?
Yes, this kid is smart and articulate…look how quick he is with answers.
Dakinikat has been covering Wisconsin so if you have not read her post, please check them out:
Death by Propaganda « Sky Dancing
And now for the Propaganda « Sky Dancing
On Wisconsin! (Breaking News) « Sky Dancing
Okay, one thing that seemed to come out of the Egyptian rising was just how impressive the reports from field journalist and reporters were. Much more impressive than their counterparts reporting from comfy news studios. Did you wonder what the affect of zero internet service had on these reporters during the revolt? What effect has the internet had on journalism? | Technology | The Observer
For Peter Beaumont, this newspaper’s foreign affairs editor, the revolution in Egypt revealed more than the power of the people in triumphing over repressive regimes; on a personal level, he discovered something new about his working practices.
Beaumont trained as a journalist in the days before the world wide web, but, like most of his profession, he has integrated new technologies into his news-gathering techniques as they’ve emerged. Covering the events in Cairo during the internet blackout in Egypt was like taking a step back in time.
“We went back to what we used to do: write up the story on the computer, go to the business centre, print it out and dictate it over the phone,” he says. “We didn’t have to worry about what was on the internet; we just had to worry about what we were seeing. It was absolutely liberating.”
Minx’s Missing Link: This article came out just last night, but it seems so interesting that I thought many readers would like to scan it over. Not to mention that cool picture of a camel swigging back a bottle of water. That is one talented camelid.
What does the Arab world do when its water runs out? | Environment | The Observer
A camel takes a drink in Jordan. The Middle East faces conflict if its water shortage is not tackled. Photograph: Neal Clark/Robert Harding Collection
Poverty, repression, decades of injustice and mass unemployment have all been cited as causes of the political convulsions in the Middle East and north Africa these last weeks. But a less recognised reason for the turmoil in Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Yemen, Jordan and now Iran has been rising food prices, directly linked to a growing regional water crisis.
The diverse states that make up the Arab world, stretching from the Atlantic coast to Iraq, have some of the world’s greatest oil reserves, but this disguises the fact that they mostly occupy hyper-arid places. Rivers are few, water demand is increasing as populations grow, underground reserves are shrinking and nearly all depend on imported staple foods that are now trading at record prices. [Guardian]
Easy Like Sunday Morning Link:
Was Charlie Chaplin a Gypsy? | Film | The Guardian
In a bomb-proof concrete vault beneath one of the more moneyed stretches of Switzerland lies something better than bullion. Here, behind blast doors and security screens, are stored the remains of one of the greatest figures of the 20th century. You might wonder what more there is to know about Charles Spencer Chaplin. Born in London in 1889; survivor of a tough workhouse childhood; the embodiment of screen comedy; fugitive from J Edgar Hoover; the presiding genius of The Kid and The Gold Rush and The Great Dictator. His signature character, the Little Tramp, was once so fiercely present in the global consciousness that commentators studied its effects like a branch of epidemiology. In 1915, “Chaplinitis” was identified as a global affliction. On 12 November 1916, a bizarre outbreak of mass hysteria produced 800 simultaneous sightings of Chaplin across America.
Though the virus is less contagious today, Chaplin’s face is still one of the most widely recognised images on the planet. And yet, in that Montruex vault, there is a wealth of material that has barely been touched. There are letters that evoke his bitter estrangement from America in the 1950s. There are reel-to-reel recordings of him improvising at the piano (“I’m so depressed,” he trills, groping his way towards a tune that rings right). A cache of press cuttings details the British Army’s banning of the Chaplin moustache from the trenches of the first world war. Other clippings indicate that, in the early 1930s, he considered returning to his homeland and entering politics. [Guardian]
Give the rest of the article a read, it goes on to discuss the possible re-writing of The Tramp’s family history.
So what are you reading today? Anything positive? Don’t know about you, but I need a jolt of humanity about now.
peej
Carissa
bostonboomer
dakinikat
ecocatwoman
grayslady
mablue2
JJ Lopez aka Minkoff Minx
NW Luna
peggysue22
quixote
skydancingguestblogger
Mona (aka Wonk the Vote)
Sky Dancing 
Doctors offering to lie, to cheat, for people they don’t know is not a good thing. Why would a note from a doctor have any meaning at all, in the future, if they they offer to write and sign countless notes that are a lie?
Have Americans really deteriorated to such an extent that they don’t even understand anymore how personal integrity is earned and maintained and why personal integrity has value, and why lying is wrong? Why our society needs doctors and teachers to set an example, and not as liars and cheats?
And it’s all the more troubling because it’s probably a needless gesture. The negotiated result of these events, as I recall anyway, is usually that the protesters get forgiven the days they spent protesting. So yet again a group gives away their trustworthiness for nothing but the cheer of a crowd.
It’s called showing balls. It’s called standing up and being counted. It’s called using what you can to support good people who are being scapegoated.
Bless them, every one of them.
Bingo.
Everybody who lies and cheats will say they’re doing it for a good reason, and of course so will those who defend them for it.
The character of men and women is defined not only by what they stand for but by how they do it.
There are many ways doctors can stand up and be counted. Lying and cheating is one way, and it’s the way liars and cheaters will choose.
Once you defend lying and cheating as an admirable way to be counted, you relinquish the right to condemn anybody else for doing the same thing.
Well, the lying was started by Governor Walker who created the deficit by giving a big TAX CUT for the RICH and then didn’t see what it was going to do to the budget, then blamed it on the workers.
One thing the workers aren’t saying, is that the large increase on health care was allowed by Obama, and the Republicans by blocking the Public Option. The health costs sky rocketed and then the GOP who asked Obama to kill HR 676 Single Payer, then block the Public Option, then kill the Dog Bone he threw at us, The Medicare Buy In is now going to cost the workers in payments they will have to make, between 350 to 550 a month for their health care. So, in the END we got TAXED, the Rich got richer and the Tea Party people still don’t get it.
We need someone to Challenge Obama, because he is not a fighter for the Rank and File Democrats, he really should be on the GOP ticket because he screwed us royally in our pocket book and now we are paying too much for health care and some people frankly can’t pay and are now going to expand the 45 million of uninsured people in America. My brother voted for Obama and now is without health care due to the sky rocketing premiums this last two years, but the last one, was the killer.
So, we can’t retreat, we need people to tell the true hardships of what is going on and we don’t want anymore speeches, and promises from Obama, he sold us out, he sold out women’s reproductive rights out too…
Where’s the lie here, Zal? Teachers are sick – sick of being scapegoated.
LOL
Good one.
Are you a doctor? How do you know they are lying. Just because they are not in an office doesn’t mean they are falsifying anything. I’ve seen reports that the video of this happening has been faked by the anti-labor forces. I appreciate your concern and it should be taken into account, but I believe it is just a distraction from the real issues.
This is from the link above:
That’s how I know.
You also said that they would get paid for the protest time.
??
Whom did I say would get paid for the protest time?
From your post:
“And it’s all the more troubling because it’s probably a needless gesture. The negotiated result of these events, as I recall anyway, is usually that the protesters get forgiven the days they spent protesting. So yet again a group gives away their trustworthiness for nothing but the cheer of a crowd.”
Another good question is whether or not they are requiring doctors notes just now or do they always require them.
I am a manager in my job and I have found that requiring a doctors note for every time you miss a day sick is actually more harmful because it causes people to come to work with illnesses that don’t require a doctors visit but are highly contagious to co-workers. Doctor notes a
True Dat!
Native1,
At the university where I teach, we aren’t allowed to require doctor’s excuses from students. It is considered a violation of their privacy.
OK, but put real names of real doctors. That doesn’t prove anything, Wall Street got Millions in bonuses, and the Republican Tea Party people didn’t jump up and down about that.
Also, the GOP has been working on a campaign of lies and Anonymous proved it by accident when they posted the e-mails of HGBary:
EXPOSED:Jane Hamsher FDL| Attack on Wikileaks, workers, unions, rights group, and journalist (Glenn Greenwald).
“And it’s all the more troubling because it’s probably a needless gesture. The negotiated result of these events, as I recall anyway, is usually that the protesters get forgiven the days they spent protesting. So yet again a group gives away their trustworthiness for nothing but the cheer of a crowd.”
I believe that is from your post.
I will just say I understand your point, I just believe in this instance I can’t agree. I will end my thoughts with this. Requiring a doctors note is simply about control and intimidation. Anyone who abuses sick leave will be able to find a doctor who will write them an excuse. Doctors aren’t all saints.
In this instance I believe that the doctors are in fact providing care be it emotional, mental,physical,stress related, what ever. I don’t believe they are compromising their integrity. They don’t appear to be getting anything out of this.
my $.02
Ah I see what you meant now.
Actually I wasn’t referring to pay.
Since Wisconsin teachers are not allowed to strike I assumed the sick notes were to protect the teachers from being fired for striking.
Sorry about the double post. The first one disappeared and I thought it was lost. Feel free to delete it if you want.
Look at the attacks on Planned Parenthood, where 1 in 5 women in America receive their reproductive care and work physicals too (I did years ago, because it was all I could afford as a teen/student).
Andrew Breitbart has been out to slime people, including Shirley, the others, which I can recall their names, broke into a legislators office, tinkered with their phones and were trying to do some kind of wire tap to slime the Dem representative….and on and on.
So, now the game is to dismantle the unions and in the end eliminate health coverage all together, because the Tea Party isn’t advocating for anything except things for the rich and taking women’s reproductive rights away!
Some Tea Party people were found to be on medicaid while yelling about ‘DON’T GIVE THEM ENTITLEMENTS’…blah, blah, blah… Frankly it is painful to watch these people being used and the truth of the matter is, in the end they will be hurt.
I recently spoke to someone that thought Medicare and Social Security were entitlements=welfare and asked if they ever ran payroll? I then asked if they ever employed people? NO and NO! I then explained how both programs are funded and their eyes glazed over. These Tea Party people are being told lies and are now saying they want Social Security privatized…yup, how many of our IRAs and SEPS went South? NO, I am not for privatizing social security and I want a LOCK BOX on both Medicare and Social Security and the government should be mandated to replace the funds they stole from both Medicare and Social Security to fund WARS and Tax breaks for the rich.
Zal,
That seems to me a kind of narrow interpretation of civil disobedience. The article says the doctors realize they could get in trouble if they actually did this (I assume it wasn’t meant literally, but just as support for the protests). Like Henry David Thoreau, they would face their punishment if necessary in order to stand up for what’s right.
What the teachers are doing is civil disobedience.
Calling doctors writing fake sick notes “civil disobedience” is a stretch beyond.
We are talking about outrageous government actions (putting the national guard on standby as a threat to prevent people from exercising their Constitutional right to gather together and protest).
We are talking about a governor who is acting on the wishes of the Koch brothers to break public employee unions. If he succeeds, other Republican governors will follow suit and the U.S. economy is going to be in much worse trouble than it is already.
And you’re concerned about some doctors joking about writing excuses for people who are staging a sick-out in protest?
IMO it’s clearly civil disobedience–it’s an unlawful strike.
People are exercising their right to gather and protest, have done so for several days now, and nobody including the Governor nor National Guard has prevented anybody from doing so.
That may or may not be, but this is a Governor who won a free and fair election in a Democracy and is now doing what he campaigned on. A couple of weeks ago weren’t we saying that’s what we wanted for the people of Egypt?
No I’m not concerned about them joking about it.
I’m pointing out that doctors lying and cheating in this way, and being cheered for it, shows again a widespread disregard for the value of integrity and admiration for the con. That’s how we end up with Presidents like Bush and Obama. And that’s why it’s getting worse, not better.
Okay, here is my thoughts on these doctors. First off, I disagree with what has been said about undermining the credibility of doctors. No this is wrong, it appears that they are not lying, these teachers are distraught and to me stress is just cause to write a note…It really does not matter. The issue with the notes is just taking away from the real issue, collective bargaining.
And one question, if writing notes is such a shame against the medical profession, what about those doctors and pharmacist that refuse care and medication because they are personally offended about abortion or abortion pills. That to me deserves warrants of calls for credibility.
You know what?
If you think the underclass is being helped by this you are being fooled.
Love,
Cassandra
Zaladonis,
I don’t know why you are focusing on the doctor’s notes. But the governor did not campaign on breaking the unions. It’s not what he promised.
Our system is not based on the majority triumphing and the minority standing aside. The point of democracy is that minority voices are still heard and the minority still has a say in policies.
And BTW, public employees are not “the underclass.”
Our system was designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority.
Here’s a question. Why are you defending this anti-union law that will very heavily contribute to another economic crash?
I am not focusing on doctor’s notes.
The point I’ve made is that doctors, physicians, top respected educated professionals of our society who’ve taken the hippocratic oath, are offering to cheat, to lie, with a smirk and a wink, for people they don’t know — not to feed starving children in a ghetto or nourish diseased peasants reduced to squalor in a gutter, but on a sunny Wisconsin day for a middle class disagreement with a duly elected Governor.
Perspective; please. This is not the French Revolution or even the American Revolution, it’s well-fed public servants who aren’t even doing a great job of educating our youth, complaining about their golden parachutes while Nero fiddles. The whole spectacle is repulsive in its gluttony. This is what tens of thousands and god knows how many across the Internet turn out to fight for — not energy assistance for the poor that Obama cut, not to protest against tax cuts for the super wealthy or corporations.
Why am I focusing on doctors eagerly offering to lie and cheat? Because it’s wrong and the easy deceitfulness has become pervasive in America.
Oh yeah, he really fooled the people.
Come ON!
This guy has never been secret about the cutbacks he has actively worked to achieve in government, he has openly and loudly, even boastfully, fought unions, and he was forthright about how he intended to balance the state’s budget.
Where was the minority in November? Did they protest, did they even vote? I don’t remember anybody at Sky Dancing mentioning this. But now that it’s a big media to-do suddenly it’s a Historic Cause grand enough that it’s worth doctors tossing aside their integrity. I don’t turn that easily.
I never said they are.
Oh please with the drama. There was a free and fair campaign and election in Wisconsin. Show me where tyrants oppressed the minority during the campaign or the election. Or since, for that matter. The minority has been free to protest to their heart’s content.
Walker is the person the people of Wisconsin voted to be their Governor. In a Democracy that should matter.
Seriously?
If you want me to answer that question at least frame it in a way that isn’t a total fallacy.
Show how ending collective bargaining for civil servants will heavily contribute to another economic crash.
It’s more like spit in the eye, less like a slap in the face.
Walker said he was doing the will of the taxpayers. Lest we forget the teachers and the unions are taxpayers too.
Not only that, but how often are doctors forced to deny patients necessary care because the patients don’t have insurance or the insurance company denies the claim and the hospital administrators won’t allow it? Ask Michelle Obama. I’m guessing that’s more the type of thing that keeps doctors up at night when they ponder their credibility and oath. Integrity doesn’t necessarily come to fruition by adhering to the perimeters of our effed up system.
“Integrity doesn’t necessarily come to fruition by adhering to the perimeters of our effed up system.” –Seriously
Right on! Also, working for the Koch brothers and trying to pass that off as doing what your constituents elected you to do is what I find dishonest.
Totally agree.
Integrity is adherence to ethical principles. A system of government or an event of a day or even an era’s prevailing fashion doesn’t define it, it’s moral character — honesty, trustworthiness, meeting the obligations one has agreed to, accepting responsibility and consequences for one’s actions.
If the teachers in Wisconsin believe they must strike to achieve justice then they should assume the responsibility of those actions. Doctors are not involved in that. If doctors want to stand shoulder to shoulder with them to show solidarity that’s their prerogative, but falsifying documents to protect the teachers from having to face the consequences of their actions means both those teachers and doctors have compromised integrity.
Our society will come apart at the seams if the threads that hold it together, give it its form and shape, continue unraveling this way.
The Governor didn’t hide his words or actions regarding public employees or unions, in fact he’s been very forthright, even boastful, for years about what he believes and putting it into action as an elected official. He was clear during the campaign that he intended to curb spending this way, and the people of Wisconsin elected him in a free and fair election.
Two weeks ago as you cheered protests in Egypt you said what the people wanted and what you supported was free and fair elections.
Was that a principled position? And if it was, how could it evaporate in the face of different circumstances?
Zal, you’re deliberately twisting and conflating things. Yes I support free and fair elections. I’ve also consistently maintained that the US electorate did not give the GOP any mandate to cut spending in 2010…they held Democrats accountable for not doing what they were elected to do in 2008. I blogged about that extensively from 2008 to 2010. Very hard to miss.
Funny you accuse me of conflating things, which I’ve not done, and then you go right into conflating the reason you believe “the US electorate” voted as they did in 2010 within a discussion of the specific election of Wisconsin’s Governor. While there may or may not be trends nationwide, I’ve seen no evidence that the people of Wisconsin didn’t make their choice of Governor based on their own state’s particular issues and Walker’s own platform.
In fact Mr. Walker was very clear in his campaign platform that, if elected, a priority would be to cut spending, and further he was specific about doing so with the government workforce. He not only was clear about it, it was a cornerstone of his campaign. The people of Wisconsin voted for Walker, his intent and his record fully articulated and reported, and they elected him Governor. That’s Democracy. That’s the consequence of free and fair elections.
If you’re going to champion Democracy and free and fair elections, exactly what outcome do you defend if it’s not The People electing the candidate of their choice through a free and fair election and then that elected official following through with his promises and doing what he said he’d do?
And, finally, I haven’t conflated two things. The principle of free and fair Democratic elections is the same here, in Wisconsin, in Egypt and in Timbuktu. It’s a principle I support, when the elected official actually does what he/she campaigns on, whether or not I approve of what the people voted for.
Zal,
Here is an analysis of Scott Walker’s campaign promises.
http://politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2011/jan/01/look-scott-walkers-campaign-promises/
I don’t see anything about ending collective bargaining rights for state employee unions. I see he did promise to create 250,000 new jobs. Has he kept that promise?
You need to start providing links along with your defense of Walker. You seem to have researched the situation a great deal, and it would be nice if you shared the sources of your knowledge.
You seem very worked up about this issue. I haven’t seen you show this kind of interest in ethics when discussing the fraud committed by Wall Street bankers. Is that because you believe Obama has the right to do anything he wants because he won the 2008 election?
That’s a serious question.
BB– I haven’t defended Walker so much as defended the process of Democracy and free and fair elections. However, reading that link you posted leads me to think more highly of Walker than I’d have assumed I would. He appears to be hard working and honest, and places a high premium on following through with campaign promises; I respect that in a public servant. Doesn’t mean I’d vote for him, but I do believe it earns him respect.
And no, he hasn’t created 250,000 new jobs during his first two months in office. He vowed to do that in the span of four years in office, and with the small business tax cuts he’s proposed to the legislature he has already taken action that he believes will begin that process.
As for collective bargaining, working with the state legislature to change that as part of curbing government worker spending is his prerogative – just as it’s the next Governor’s prerogative to work with the legislature to reinstate it if that’s what he believes will bring about the changes he’s promised to deliver to the people who elected him. Walker needn’t spell that out specifically during the election campaign – his opposition to pubic employee unions wasn’t a secret and unions didn’t support his candidacy. Nobody was hoodwinked.
Here’s a link to a statement Walker made last June during the campaign in response to his opponent’s spending cut proposal that Walker claimed his opponent was saying just to get elected. In it, Walker reiterates his promise to cut spending (including government worker) and brags how he’s done so in the past.
http://racinegop.org/2010/06/07/walker-campaign-statement-on-barrett’s-deja-vu-spending-proposal/
And finally:
I’ve many times demonstrated an interest in ethics in discussing the fraud committed by Wall Street bankers.
[I’ve deleted my paragraph that originally appeared in this spot in order to remove insulting language and personal details about myself. –zaladonis]
Let’s hope Walker doesn’t have a chance to show what he will do during four years in office. He can be recalled after one year and I look forward to witnessing that.
Zal, Walker has been outed as a liar. His ethical pants are now on fire.
http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12377
Zal: I’m having a difficult time understanding your argument because of the tone of some of your statements. I’m not alone in this either. Some of your statements appear accusatory and judgmental. It’s offputting.
That being said, I’m going to put in my two cents. I’m not sure where you get the idea that any election is a blank check. Saying you’re going to run on fiscal responsibility and then ginning up a deficit through tax cuts isn’t exactly an honest act. Using that deficit–especially after state workers have offered up benefits and wage concessions–to remove their right to collective bargain was definitely not part of the platform. The overreach is the heart of the protest arguments.
Also,we have a republic with checks and balances. An election doesn’t end the voter’s responsibility to play a role in that. If anything, this election was about creating gridlock to stop overreach on the health care and bailout steps taken by the Democrat. I’m pretty sure that the majority of voters didn’t vote for the resulting backlash against women and gays either. Doctor’s have an ethical responsibility to promote life and well-being. If people’s lives and well-being are threatened, they can act according to their conscious and they too can commit acts of civil disobedience.
If you remember, Gandhi purposely broke laws involving the production of salt in India. At the time, it was a business reserved for a British company. He wasn’t specifically interested in going into the salt production business. The doctors have announced that they’re doing this activity as an act of civil disobedience. How then can you perceive it as deception? All acts of civil disobedience are announced and open defiant acts against government that are by nature against the rules. It’s not lying if they’re opening stating why they’re doing it. That means it’s not a ‘lie’ per se because it’s an open act.
I think at some point we’re going to have to realize that a few people have some differences of opinion on this matter. I don’t really see much benefit to arguing a same point over and over again when the same disagreement results. This is especially true when the statements are coming straight from right wing talking points and the overwhelming majority of the people here aren’t buying them.
I think also that you need to realize that you’re also surrounded by many women who are teachers, nurses, etc. and are in similar situations. When you’re hurling these accusations, you’re hitting me directly in the face. I’m not sure if you know that but I’m a teacher and I’ve been part of collective bargaining units. I wrote about it on my last post. I’ve never been part of a state worker’s union that hasn’t been willing to make concessions where there’s truly budget problems. But again, this governor created the budget problems and isn’t just asking for wage and benefit concessions. He’s changing the laws to remove their right to bargain. That was never part of the election campaign or his platform.
I can tell you feel strongly about this because, again, the tone of your comments are coming across in a way that’s offputting to many. I’m not sure what your experience has been that has created such hostility, but I can tell you that I’m not a lazy person, that I work hard when I teach, that I deserve a decent, market wage and expect no more than that. Do you really find me such an evil person just because I work for the public sector because that’s sure what it sounds like to me.
Can we please either agree to disagree or find some less accusatory way to make points? I’m getting emails suggesting that this has gone being making an argument into some attacks that are getting personal.
Thanks, dkat
Zaladonis wrote (emphasis added):
Hmmmm….interesting use of pronouns.
I guess I did miss your rants on Wall Street ethics, and I’m glad you have expressed them in the past. Knowing that, it’s surprising that you approve of the ethics of cutting taxes on rich people and paying for it on the back of working families–yes, public employees have families, they are citizens, and they are voters. They make significantly less money than their counterparts in the private sector. If they lose their pensions, most of them will not get Social Security, because they were enrolled in a public pension plan. Many of those workers will fall into poverty. Where is the “ethics” in that?
And when those people fall into poverty, they’ll no longer be able to consume–our economy runs on consumer spending. If this process happens in other states, it will worsen the national economy and contribute to another economic crisis. I stand by my argument, and you can feel free to continue to imply that I’m stupid and melodramatic. I simply don’t care what you think of me.
YES! I want to echo this. My father was a federal employee, his wages were less to finance his pension and he had no social security benefits. Without his pension, he would have been in poverty in his senior years and I (his only child) would have been unable to help him.
I have many times said I disapprove of cutting taxes on rich people and paying for it on the backs of working families. I disapprove of it and I’ve said so; many times here. I don’t know how to be clearer than that.
And I’ve been clear that my defense in this discussion is for Democracy and the respect of free and fair elections, not of Walker and certainly not of tax cuts for the rich.
As to whether or not cutting taxes for the rich and paying for it on the backs of working families is ethical, that’s mixing apples and oranges if you’re relating it to my point about doctors falsifying documents. Yes I think it’s morally reprehensible that Bush and Obama and others (including Walker if he did so) cut taxes for the rich that the working and middle class have to pay for (I’ve never voted for nor supported the candidacy of anybody who did that), but that’s a different plate of potatoes from doctors falsifying documents.
Nice roundup, Minx. Fatigue overwhelms me, but my night is about to end.
Another one bites the dust…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110220/ap_on_re_us/us_louisiana_senate_election_3
Hillary is 44 is a favorite site of mine for posts like this…
http://www.hillaryis44.org/2011/02/19/thunderball-in-wisconsin/
This means 500…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110220/ap_on_re_af/af_libya_protests
Let it not be said that a peaceful solution was not sought for by the world community. This guy is just a power hungery tool…
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2052735,00.html
Hillary 2012
MoJo: Wisconsin Firefighters say they’ll give up pay to save collective bargaining…
Video at the link.
All of the workers have offered to accept cutbacks too. They just don’t want to give up their collective bargaining rights. The governor is refusing to accept anything except breaking the unions completely. This is a throwback to the 1930s.
I hope the Democratic legislators stay out of the state for weeks if necessary!
Me too BB, and the way the Gov. has gone an around about way to satisfy the Koch brothers…reminds me a lot of those accounts from the 30’s.
Great roundup, Minx. Thanks.
Interesting Tea Party report from Madison ( early morning hurl alert! ) but the good news is that the comments are pro-union:
http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/02/tea-party-demonstrators-urged-cuts-in.html
I read the whole thing and where were the pro-union comment?
Andrew Breitbart who is busy trying to demonize Shirley cuz she is ‘black racist’, until we learned he snipped and clipped his video to show a lie, and of course Joe the Plumber who wasn’t a licensed plumber after all but is still being called Joe the Plumber!
One comment by the Fire Fighters that was true was that the Republicans were with them on 911, but on
9/12 they were against them and their need for health care. I agree on that point, as we are the last Western country in the world that doesn’t care for its citizens and yet we have billions to give away for corruption! ENOUGH, I don’t want NO POISON TEA Party, that works to get the RICH RICHER!
Peace Movement my ars, they didn’t support the Egyptian People, they supported the corrupt dictators! Even Huckabee is a preacher of for the rich, saying people with pre-existing conditions should die, and not be able to get insurance! Yup, that is the GOP Love, that is the true nature of who they are for, and I am no millionaire or billionaire and don’t hate people, so as to let them die while claiming they are for us. They lied about the cost of our health care, they are now saying to pitch in, why? Didn’t they say we had the low cost affordable health care that didn’t need reform? So, then why are workers going to fork over $359 to $550 more a month for health care? It is clear as day that the Tea Party people talk and talk but tell lies depending on what day it is.
I meant the posts in the comments section after the article were pro-union. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
OH, I get so upset some times…good thing I went to work for a bit…on break. It breaks my heart to see so many people being used, yet this ‘Tea Party’ isn’t asking where the 2.3 Trillion is that went missing from the Pentagon. Fiscal responsibility my foot. They go after the Rank and File because they are funded my Billionaires!
9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon
So, if the Tea Party was right about there not being a need to reform the health care, why was this Governor Walker giving tax breaks before doing a budget analysis and seeing the short fall? Why are health care cost so high? Where is this ‘affordable’ health care that 45 million American’s can afford or find? To me it is plain as day, that these Tea Party pro-millionaires/billionaires are telling lies.
He did it deliberately in order to find an excuse to the break the unions. He was following orders from his bosses, the Koch brothers.
Exactly!
I was watching some of the live broadcast of the WI protest yesterday. The best comment of the day, IMO, came when the head of AFSCME 10 said that he had spoken with one of the state senate Dems-on-the-run and had asked him if he had a message for the protesters. The Dem senator, the AFSCME rep reported, said “Tell them we’re doing this because we love them.” Now *that’s* messaging! When voters feel that you care about them as individuals, you will always have a winning message. (Of course, in this case, the Dem senators backed up their words with actions–increasing their credibility.)
Hey everyone, here’s a great idea! At corrente, Valhalla and Lambert are suggested people should buy a protester breakfast or a pizza.
It’s a great idea. For those of you on Facebook, the place is called Ian’s Pizza. The FB page is Ian’s Pizza on State.
Is it a donation or do they need food and drink to continue standing strong? I will buy a pizza, but like Cannon, I don’t do face book.
You call and order a donation pizza. They’re making Mac & Cheese pizzas and delivering them to the protestors. One pizza is $22.00, and they ask if you want to tip the delivery people, so for $25.00 you can do some good. The guy is really nice on the phone. They have stopped taking regular orders and are only taking donation orders.
Here’s a link to their website where you can get the number…
http://www.ianspizza.com/html/stateStreet.html
thx for the shoutout, bboomer, I just came over here to post the pizza info but you beat me to it!
Ian’s is on FB but you don’t seem to need a login. Or their regular website is here.
The very polite call-taker at Ian’s said they’ve gotten orders from all but about 8 states.
This is so cool, what a great idea.
More than 200 anti-gov’t protesters massacred in Libya–shot by snipers from helicopters.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12518710
“Women and children lept from bridges to their deaths” trying to escape “ruthless crackdown.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8335934/Libya-protests-140-massacred-as-Gaddafi-sends-in-snipers-to-crush-dissent.html
harrowing.
Oh horrible…horrible.
Hey BB, thanks for all the links on the protests. Was this one in Egypt or Libya?
That had me in tears, because they keep thinking Obama is going to do something and I don’t have the heart to tell them, he sold us out on women’s rights and HR 676 Single Payer->The Public Option->, The Medicare Buy In…and all we got was Nothing, except skyrocketing premiums. They also don’t know he went back on Gitmo, and Assassination Program he did go and defend.
Heart breaking, but they are now trying to get medical supplies from Tunisia and Egypt, but Gaddafi is using aircraft artillery and some sort of tank carriers to run them over (didn’t fully understand what the man was saying it was that he is using).
Gaddafi is also using mercenaries to kill the people because the police and some army wouldn’t kill them in cold blood. Horrid, just horrid.
Gosh, we need some one like her to run against Mr. Barrack Reagan. Do you remember that Act Up was started because of Reagan’s lack of care for those suffering from AIDS?
Over in my late night post, Outis referred to her as Messiah in a Pant suit. Such a good comment: https://skydancingblog.com/2011/02/19/late-night-stream-of-consciousness/#comment-22136
OT: Before I start to comment let me just warn y’all…I have a migraine and the darvocet is kicking in…could be a good thing? Anyway, if my thoughts wander…
Sorry to hear that Minx. I hope you can get rid of the migraine.
I just finished reading the Chaplin article. That was really interesting.
Wasn’t it? I thought it was a good read and helpful, as far as providing a distraction from disturbing events going on all over the globe.
Minx *hugs* Hope your thoughts wander a little… I like where you take us! 🙂
😉
Did you see the reporter that looked as if she was having a stroke and it was due to the migraine headache? They showed a graphic of a brain and how if severe enough it can stop the blood supply, even if temporary. I once went in for one, due to stress and my eyes felt horrible. I now settle down and let things go a bit.
So, have some tea and do self care…take care.
Good Morning America: Serene Branson, What Happened to Grammys Reporter? 2/15/2011
Yes WV, I did! I have those auras, looks like a series of lights passing by, almost like the warp drive in the old Start Trek TV series.
I get those auras too, Minx. I don’t usually get migraines anymore, but recently I did get a terrible aura and I had a missing area in my vision, which always scares me. Luckily I got rid of the headache before it got too bad.
Al Jazeera says around 230 people dead in Libya and 900 injured. Hospitals are overwhelmed.
Now the military has decided they can’t continue to massacre people are are taking the side of the protesters.
Massive celebrations right now on the streets of Bengazi.
Mona E is on the phone with someone in Libya and is tweeting live updates.
http://twitter.com/#!/monaeltahawy
oh wow, thanks bb
I hope the military continues to protect the people. This is just so awful. Has there been any WH response?
Holy Smokes! I just read this on the Drudge Report then poked around and found info at other sources. Pictures from the UK Mail online. There’s been a ‘Jasmine Revolution’ movement in China, one more protest call fueled by social blogging and tweets. Link here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1358834/China-quashes-pro-democracy-Jasmine-Revolution-force.html?ITO=1490
Am I the only one who hadn’t read this before? The authorities are cracking down hard. Are we [US] ‘protecting’ the Chinese because of our symbiotic relationship, not reporting on the protests for economic reasons? The pictures are pretty amazing.
Btw, I just heard a report on the Lybian uprising [CNN]. Sounds grim for the people in the streets. Unlike Egypt, the ‘enforcers’ are not Lybian but mercenaries hired to do the dirty work. In the city of Benghazi [1 million population] at least 200 have been killed. Link here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/20/501364/main20034112.shtml
Wasn’t this already a movie with George Clooney?
American who sparked diplomatic crisis over Lahore shooting was CIA spy | World news | The Guardian
Lindsey Graham: Elections Only Have Consequences When Republicans Win | Firedoglake
The Lopsided Law of Wall Street – Larry’s List – Truthdig
Yes I am catching up on my google reader, and finding lots of stuff to link to…
As an addendum to those comments, minx, Matt Taibbi has another Wall St/DC corruption article at the Rolling Stone. Link here:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216
As miserably wrong-headed as Taibbi was on Obama, he’s done some very good work on the Banking swindle that took down the world. And his headline/question here is on point: Why Isn’t Wall Street in Jail?
Frankly, I wouldn’t wince if they [the swindlers] were hanging from lamp posts!
Thanks Peggy Sue! I’m running a bit slow today so any new links are a huge help!
Fox Accuses White House of Coordinating with OFA and the DNC to Organize Protests | Video Cafe
And one more, only this is ABC.
ABC This Week’s Elites to Wisconsin Workers: “We Won, So Screw You All” | MyFDL
What is wrong with Democratic groups supporting unions anyway?
SEIU just sent me this list of pro-union Solidarity rallies being held around the country starting tomorrow. I hope to attend one.
http://action.seiu.org/page/s/solidarityaction
Thank you for the link Beata, will tweet it as well!
There is one in Boston on Tuesday at the state house. Unfortunately I have to teach a class, but I will check to see what’s happening.
power to the people !!!!!!