Late Night Thoughts and Reactions

This thread is one which, being discussed and thought over, is something that must be posted. Let’s just say that it is a very personal thing to write about, especially for a survivor and victim of one of the worst crimes to be committed, on anyone. On Tuesday, CBS reported that one of their female journalist was attacked, beaten and brutally gang raped by a mob of men in Tahrir Square, Cairo, Egypt, the night Mubarak “stepped down.”  I will refuse to write the victim’s name, even though it’s been publicized all over the internet, including an image of the victim moments before the attack occurred. (I will not even begin to discuss what I think about that, which I am sure will help feed the reaction and commentaries that have already begun to question her appearance and “attractiveness” in relation to the attack. )

I will post a few links to articles of discussion, but first I wanted to get some thoughts down about this in general. Rape is a crime that not only hurts the victim physically, it is an emotional attack as well. I does not matter if the violator was a stranger, a friend, a family member. It could be committed by someone known and trusted, on a date…or an unknown group, mob or gang.  A person, and that is not just women by the way, men get raped too…does not deserve to be raped, they do not ask to be raped, they do not need others to justify the rape because of the way they look, or act, or dress. Rape is not a side effect of walking through a park at dusk alone, or being in the middle of a huge crowd during an uprising and revolt. In other words, rape is not an accepted crime because the person put themselves in a bad situation. Rape is not something that is limited to a class of people,  or a “type” of victim, it affects everyone.

Most people are not even aware of close friends/girlfriends/boyfriends/wives/husbands/sisters/brothers that have been a victim of a molestation in one form or another. People keep quiet about it, and who can blame them. The reaction when someone is raped is pretty much standard, as anyone can see from the public comments on any of these articles being written about this particular rape.

So just a word to the wise, this is a very sensitive issue…and I will not have any comments that go over the top, or reflect the sort of dialogue that is taking place in the comment section of all sorts of articles and blog post. To even write this little warning shows the kind of attitude towards crimes of sexual assault, which is pathetic. However, I know that there are some who will take this opportunity to write some anonymous drivel, “they should have expected it,” ” got what they wanted,” oh…you get my drift. (Note: this is being said because I feel so strongly about it.  And yes god-dammit, it is personal.)

So, I have said what I wanted to. Now I will post a few links about this. One in particular on pandagon.net written by Amanda Marcotte,  (h/t bostonboomer) which is straight to the point and very good. pandagon.net – it’s the eye of the panda, it’s the thrill of the bite

Why rape happens, a reminder

Rape is a political act, in the purest sense that second wave feminists meant when they said “the personal is political”. What they meant by that was not that one isn’t allowed to make choices to survive in a patriarchy, and that we should therefore turn feminism into a purity contest. What they meant was that many things women had been encouraged to see as merely personal matters, including violence against them, were better understood in a political lens. Men rape not because they’re animals and you tempted them and that’s that. The feminist view is rape is political, an act of dominance, a reassertion of the patriarchy.

That’s why I’m not surprised anymore when gang rapes happen. There is no more “pure” rape than men getting together and encouraging each other to prove this perverse, patriarchal definition of manhood by hurting and dominating a woman. And that’s why rapes escalate in times of conflict, because in the frenzy of men trying to get power over each other, women are objects to act out those power games.

…It says nothing about Egypt but that they’re a patriarchy that this happened. It says nothing about the claims of the protesters otherwise, and it may not say anything about the future of women. It definitely says nothing about whether or not this people or that people can self-govern. It simply says that when we raise men from the cradle to think of women as the gender that serves and is dominated, rape will become an expression of power and dominance. Gang rapes happen here. They happen pretty much everywhere, because patriarchy is a worldwide injustice. Rapes are about this oldest injustice, and this ugly spot on the stain of all humanity. Crowds of men, struggles over power, women as objects. It’s a formula that leads to this. The leg to kick out from under that to prevent this is not struggles for government control, which are part and parcel of being human. Or people hitting the streets, demanding their rights. The leg to kick out is the worldwide belief that women are second class. Then and only then will rape stop.

What did I tell you, to the point and spot on. Thank you Amanda for writing something so compassionate and understanding.

The other links below are some that I picked out of many that are being written about it. The National Review one has screenshots of some offensive Tweets that have since been deleted by the journalist that wrote them. Disgust is all I have for this sort of 140 characters of hate.  Anyway, to all who have an aversion to the likes of National Review, just pass it on by.

Slate: Attacked in Egypt: What does it mean for the nation’s women?

An Appalling Reaction to an Outrageous Crime – By Jim Geraghty – The Campaign Spot – National Review Online

Now, I wanted to post a link to another gang rape that was committed last week. This one involved a 13 year old girl, being attacked by three fellow schoolmates, 13 year old boys that attend her middle school. As I said up top, violators can be strangers or friends…this girl was attacked while walking home through a park. She was raped on a playground set, a true loss of innocence…the irony is not wasted on me.

Rape suspects ‘knew it was wrong’ | Inland News | PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California

One of the three 13-year-old boys who admitted raping a 13-year-old girl in Banning said he was promised use of an iPod if he participated in the attack against his classmate, police said Friday.

Alright, so this late night drift is a tough one. I look forward to reading your comments.

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64 Comments on “Late Night Thoughts and Reactions”

  1. Minkoff Minx says:

    Wow, talk about crickets… ;)

  2. Pat Johnson says:

    The assault on Lara Logan is beyond appalling.

    But the comments displayed by those on the link to Twitter show her being assaulted by a mindless mob all over again.

    The lack of empathy threading its way through the world is frightening. People taking the time to make those egregious comments illustrate that a person can live without having a conscience.

    Despicable.

    • Minkoff Minx says:

      And Pat, that is just tweets from another professional…the comments about the rape from J.Q. Public are horrible too.

    • dakinikat says:

      Sexual assault is the crime that keeps on keeping on … survive the assault and then you get to deal with the aftermath of rape apoligia and blame.

    • Woman Voter says:

      I didn’t click on the link, but had a sad thought, in that the crime was committed to protest the violence faced by the Egyptian people, and rape was one of them, to which men and women were subjected to.

      We saw during the first two days that Egyptian women were targets, and then they disappeared for a couple of days, but returned with more convictions and stood fast.

      I heard about it through a friend late tonight and he said the buzz on the internet was that it was the same thug types that attacked the Egyptian women and that the reporters family wanted some quiet time and time to heal alone with her. Which is understandable given the gravity and brutality of the assault.

      I will keep her and her family in thought tonight.

    • bostonboomer says:

      The reactions I read on comment threads last night ranged from compassionate to disgusting and repulsive. It’s not surprising, but always hard for me to understand the lack of empathy for women who have been raped–even coming from other women.

      • Woman Voter says:

        BB,

        The truth is that I have yet to see a news documentary that shows, what damage is done to women that are gang raped by brutal thugs, that lack basic humanity. Some don’t recover, because even the very system that is put in place to help initially wasn’t equipt to deal with that level of trauma.

        Recently I saw a documentary on ‘Trafficking of Women’, and a teen wasn’t allowed to have someone present while being interrogated, and was not treated to kindly by staff (Mom was on camera and is a nurse.). The result was that those responsible for kidnapping and selling her to rapists, while she was drugged were never prosecuted.

        I the thirteen year old and the reporter are well cared for and surrounded by people that love them.

  3. Pat Johnson says:

    A “war on women” is being waged throughout the world. Darful gets little mention these days. The plight of the women in Haiti had a short run.

    Our own congress is poised to make similar claims to deny women their equal rights through healthcare and certain states are working feverishly to go even further.

    I have a suspicion that we will not recognize our own nation in 20 years based on the theocratical laws these female hating legislators are willing to put in place.

    “Blame the victim” will become the law of the land and judging from the temperment coming from those who took the time to Twitter those remarks, they would be more than willing to support it.

    • The rape crisis in the Congo is one of the epicenters of the war on women… when Hillary was there doing important work to address the situation, the media turned it into a sideshow about Hillary “snapping” at the male student who asked her to be her husband’s mouthpiece.

  4. TheRock says:

    Evening all! Rough day is almost over (finally!). The Bieber movie tanked, which was good news.

    I talked to my sister today (7 months pregnant and in a bad mood all the time), who sadly is a raging obot. She had no idea about the moves the government is making against women. She was floored when I told her about the South Dakota committee decision to allow the murderers of abortion docs to go free.

    Asshats.

    Hillary 2012

  5. Nice post on a development I was very saddened to hear about.

    I remember Matt Taibbi’s weird attack on Lara Logan at the time of the McChrystal fiasco. I didn’t agree with her views on journalists and the military and keeping things off the record or whatever, but I remember Taibbi was very hypocritical in his attacks on her and just seemed to be piling on.

  6. I read that Lara was eventually saved by a group of women and soldiers.

    I can’t understand why other women turn their backs on sisterhood, when at the end of the day,our sisters are the ones who are there for us, in our hour of need.

    • bostonboomer says:

      That was the one aspect of the story that seemed somewhat positive to me (I guess that sounds weird)– that Egyptian women helped save her.

      I read last night that it is common for women in Egypt to be groped in public. During the demonstrations women had said that this was not happening, but then at some point it started up again.

      • Minkoff Minx says:

        Yes BB, it seems that groping is part of life for women in Egypt.

        This was on a flyer distributed in the Square after Mubarak left.

        “Today this country is your country. Do not litter. Don’t drive through traffic lights. Don’t bribe. Don’t forge paperwork. Don’t drive the wrong way. Don’t drive quickly to be cool while putting lives at risk. Don’t enter through the exit door at the metro. Don’t harass women. Don’t say, ‘It’s not my problem.’ Consider God in your work. We have no excuse anymore.”

        Egyptian minds are opened – Middle East – Al Jazeera English

        At the time I thought it odd about that bit on harassing women, in the context that it was on a list with driving fast and going in through the out door. Now I understand…groping women is just as nonchalant an act as speeding and running red lights.

  7. Jadzia says:

    I just … can’t imagine having my name and picture all over the world media after suffering that crime. Hell, I never told anybody because I was afraid my EX HUSBAND would find out (because he would have used it against me in a custody fight). I hope the journalist has family and friends for real support in the months and years to come. She will need it.

    • Woman Voter says:

      Jadzia,

      You bring up a point that is so true in custody issues, in that they bring up, things, that are far to hurtful and are only done to crush the other person.

    • bostonboomer says:

      Other female journalists wrote that CBS would not have released her name unless she approved of it. She was very courageous to do so.

      • Woman Voter says:

        Yes, she is a SHERO, and has a genuine professional reputation for going into war zones. It mentioned this morning that she was arrested, detained and deported out of the country by Mubaraks people. She had only returned that very day after, Mubarak stepped down, and wanted to report on the story, but she was once again a target and when separated from her crew was assaulted and brutaly beaten, until she was finally rescued.

        SHERO JOURNALIST!

  8. Fredster says:

    I never knew anything about her being involved in the McChrystal mess or anything. I barely watched it on the news and just figured it was a part of beltway politics. I don’t get how Rosen or a responder was calling her a “war-monger”.

    However, from the Marcotte piece you cited:

    It simply says that when we raise men from the cradle to think of women as the gender that serves and is dominated

    Okay I should feel guilty because I have a penis? We are also taught that women are the nurturers in the family. When I was sick I didn’t ask for dad, but mom. Yet my mom and my grandmother both worked in aircraft plants in WWII, so they were both tough and nurturing. (?)

    I guess what I’m trying to say is don’t judge all men as the same.

    Don’t know if I’m getting my point across or not but need to call it a night/morning. I hate sinus crap and I don’t have enough of a cough with it to be able to take the “good” cough medicine, the one that knocks you out. :-)
    Catch you all later in the day. Feel free to lambast me as you need to y’all.

    • I’m not a huge fan of Marcotte, but I think her comment on what happened to Lara Logan is speaking to things at a societal level, rather than an individual level. In other words, no you don’t have to feel guilty, Fredster. We just have to understand as a society that the mechanisms underneath the assaults on women are a political assertion of dominance–and until we uproot the societal undercurrents that treat women as second class citizens to be dominated, then we’re still trying to solve this problem more from the “how do we help survivors” level, after the fact, rather than at the prevention level. IMHO.

    • bostonboomer says:

      Fredster,

      Women are raised by the same culture that men are, and women can often be harder on other women than any man. Of course you aren’t personally responsible for this.

      Most men do not behave in this way, but those that do have been shaped by a culture of violence and hatred of women. Most men somehow surmout the cultural images and messages that tell them again and again that women are objects to be dominated.

      I’m guessing that it depends mostly on whether our families helped us get past the cultural messages or whether our families reinforced them.

      • Fredster says:

        Thanks bb and wonk and all for the comments. My maternal grandmother was divorced from her husband not too long after Mom was born and my grandmother moved in with her sister and her sons to have a household (and because it was in the 30s) to share expenses. So Mom was raised by her mom and her aunt, it was basically a female household. My dad had a number of unaccompanied tours in the service so my grandmother and grandad were around a lot and you could say I was influenced by the females who helped to bring me up. Anyway, *I* had enough fear and respect of them, growing up, that I didn’t try a lot of stuff other than what kids normally try. Let’s say that my grandma, all 4’10″ of her and mom 5’8″ could take a houseshoe and beat your butt pretty good, so I had a healthy respect for them. And probably because I am gay I do not understand the whole dominating a woman thing. Thanks again for the comments, I appreciate them.

      • bostonboomer says:

        I’m really glad you came back, Fredster. I’ve always enjoyed your comments.

        Men can be raped and sexually abused too. Men can even be victims of domestic violence or dating violence. And women can be perpetrators.

        I just saw this afternoon that Scott Brown revealed that he was abused as a young boy by a camp counselor.

        http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49665.html

        I think it is important to bring these crimes out in the open. They are never the fault of the victim.

    • Woman Voter says:

      NO, we are not judging ALL men here, we see that even in the celebration for Freedom there remained the element that was oppressing the Egyptian people there.
      Plese note that the Egyptian people were so afraid of police because they would be subject to torture and yes rape, rape of both men (The Wael Abbas video showed a man being raped by police with an object…) and women.

      So, the brutality is something that the people of Egypt couldn’t tolerate, as countless women, even older women stated, was a motivating factor in them joining the protests.

      But yes, we have taken notice that it was group of women, with soldiers (whom I presume they summonded to help) that rescued the reporter. More awareness needs to happen, and it also needs to happen here too, so we understand we too have a long way to go. It doesn’t help when our media helps to objectify women and when people won’t report on rape as a weapon used against women and children (boys and girls), pure torture/violence that leaves victims permantly harmed.

  9. cwaltz says:

    I don’t know that I’d term it a “political act.” However, it is about power.

    I wish the reporter well and hope she can come to terms with what happened. It’s hard accepting that sometimes the monsters of the world look just like you and me and even harder and more courageous to choose to walk among people anyways to spite the horrific acts of monsters.

  10. bostonboomer says:

    Minx,

    Thank you so much for your sensitive response to this horrifying event. I was so disturbed by this news, that I couldn’t find words to write about it. Thank you for helping to put this awful story in perspective.

  11. soupcity says:

    Great post. This is horrific. Some of the comments I have been reading (not here of course) have been just awful, placing blame directly on Logan. She is one of the best correspondents out there. She and Michael Ware are responsible for some of the most truthful reporting that came out of Iraq and Afghanistan. For anyone to say she didn’t belong there or was foolish to go has no clue of the insights and talent of this woman. Wishing her all the best.

    • dakinikat says:

      A lot of the stigma around rape compared to other horrible attacks still comes from the fact that women are treated like property and this was originally treated as a property crime. Women are supposed to die fighting off the alien sperm so she can keep her male owner’s claims on her and her offspring pure. I hate to see women’s ability to do important jobs threatened because of how these kinds of brutal attacks are taken with rape apoligia and this kind of blatant treatment of women in mind. I’m just hoping that we start a conversation on what rape really means and not get some kind of backlash for women going into dangerous places. That also infers that some how ‘our’ women need to be protected but the women, children, and young men living in societies where this is a tool of oppression and control don’t deserve to have institutions put in place to stop it. Mac’s experience in Haiti hasn’t been getting as much air time nor has the women in Egypt who were assaulted either. Mac’s a lesbian. Of course, Egyptian women are ‘brown’ people and not ‘christian’ either. I’m also hoping this isn’t just doesn’t turn into a rescue the blond princess press event either.

      and, yes, I’m jaded about this kind of stuff … I’m tired of the girls shouldn’t do that sort’ve thing or that’s what happens to them mentality

      • Woman Voter says:

        In the first days of the Egyptian protests, they used sexual assualt as a means to keep the women out of the protests, then a couple of days later, they returned, and more detirmined.

        In Mexico it was common custom and sanctioned to kidnap women/teens/pre-teens, sexually assault them and then they were ‘the man’s’ property, because she had been soiled. The practice soon came to a quick end (almost), when the mother’s began to take matters into their own hands, threatening to kill the kidnappers (Some did, and oddly enough they were prosecuted, where as the kidnappers/rapists weren’t.) and then worked to pass a law ‘denouncing the practice’ of kidnapping and rape of their daughters. In rural areas, I believe on occassion it still happens, but the mothers, continue their fight, and keep ‘machetes’ at the ready.

        I can recall being on a ‘committee’ with orgs, in conjunction with ‘officials’ that began to ask about kidnappings of minors, and was it a ‘cultural’ thing, and should they persue…etc. Well, I just about fell off my chair! PROSECUTE, PURSUE, INPRISON THEM! Lordi, what the hell, kinda justice crapola was that…sheesh, the kid (female child) wasn’t eleven! Today, there is a different attitude, the FBI is called etc., but yup, women, female children were judged as not very important property.
        Please note, I was never invited to a committee, on whether they (gov)should pursue car thieves. I don’t know if I am supposed to talk about this, since it was in ‘confidence’ and all, but it wasn’t work related, as I was there as a community member, but feel it is important to mention, because it wasn’t that long ago, under 20 years.

        On occassion I have pursued perverts with my golf clubs, part of ‘Neighborhood Watch’, when we had a serial child sexual abuser on the loose. Yup, he called his parole officer, claiming a mad lady was chasing him. He forgot to mention, that another one, hosed him down, with his pants below his knees, and several other neighbors were running down several streets with brooms and gardening equipment. Each time we called 911, the police arrived after he ran off, so we did our own chase. With my artist skills, he was caught. Sadly, but the parole officers, must of had fun (snark here)reading the papers, because we were after him for several weeks with no luck after many meetings, which the press helped with.

      • bostonboomer says:

        I totally agree with you, Dak!

      • Minkoff Minx says:

        Dak, yes…yes…yes!

    • Woman Voter says:

      CBS reporter ‘assaulted’ in Cairo

      US broadcasting network CBS says one of its correspondents, Lara Logan, was attacked and sexually assaulted during celebrations in Eygpt.

      &
      According to media watchdog, The Committee to Protect Journalists, at least 52 journalists were attacked, and 76 inprisoned…The Committee also said one journalist Ahmad Mohamed Mahmoud was killed while filming in Tehrir Square.

  12. Branjor says:

    Brutal crimes like this rape and the present legislative attempts to deprive women of control over their own bodies are just the tiniest tip of the iceberg of all the terrible things that are done to women by men, and aided and abetted by women. All men don’t have to do this stuff all the time in order for it to have its desired effects. This particularly horrendous stuff tends to rivet our attention and take away attention from the vast edifice of the iceberg underneath, mildly described above as societal currents.

  13. madamab says:

    Thank you so much for this post. The unspoken truth is that the prevalance of men’s violence against women is utterly shocking. About 30% of women will experience either rape, beatings or both in their lifetime. This figure is the same throughout the world, including in the U.S. And yet ignorant fools pretend this isn’t happening, that “the bitch deserved it.”

    Let’s do a little role reversal here. Imagine if every man had to worry about every woman they encountered casually or intimately. Will she hurt me? Will she become obsessed with me? When I walk down the street alone, late at night, am I safe, or will a violent woman decide that I am fair game? Will my boss expect me to sleep with her to get that promotion? Will my mother or stepmother or “funny aunt” come into my room at night and molest me?

    Can you imagine men living with these fears, knowing that they have a one in three chance of one or more of such horrors happening to them?

    Please, spare me. Just spare me. It’s implausible to the point of ludicrousness.

    The point is, if these pro-rape commenters don’t understand that our global rape and violence culture means there’s a patriarchy, then they’re f@cking idiots.

    Re: blaming individuals for the patriarchy, I agree with others here. The patriarchy is not the fault of individual men – after all, most men suffer under the patriarchy too, for it is the patriarchy that causes war and economic injustice. The patriarchy is made up of the same top 2% who are running our beloved country into the ground right now. So no, Fredster, there’s no need to feel that anyone is condemning you just for your scary man-parts…unless you plan to join the top 2% in Davos next year! ;-)

  14. Fredster says:

    So no, Fredster, there’s no need to feel that anyone is condemning you just for your scary man-parts…unless you plan to join the top 2% in Davos next year!

    Yeah MB, me, fuzzybear and Al Franken are gonna crash that Davos thing :lol: For those of you who don’t go over to TW, fuzzybear is a gay commenter at TW. Fuzzy and I will be Franken’s *enforcers*.

    • WomanVoter says:

      The clip below, shows that Logan and her crew had exposed some of the brutal torture done by the Mubarak regime and that they had become a focus. She and her crew had been photographed, detained/arrested while blindfolded, accused of being spies and deported. She then returned back to Egypt when Mubarak stepped down and that was the day she had been brutally attacked and assaulted by a mob of men. She was rescued by a group of women and soldiers.

      I hope she heals in time, surrounded by her husband and her small children. Keeping you in my prayers/sending you good thoughts.

      Lara Logan Attacked, Assaulted by Mob of 200 2/16/2011

      • madamab says:

        Did you notice that comments had been disabled on that video? I guess the sexist sh*theads couldn’t keep a civil tongue in their heads.

      • WomanVoter says:

        Yup, I did and I also noticed that several blogs omit, the fact that it was the Egyptian women who organized to rescue her, along with the 20 soldiers (which I believe they summoned to help).

        madamab, the women of the world must stay united, as when the chips are down, the sisterhood is what will prevail, then others will follow and help. It takes just one voice of reason to say STOP!

        I hope she, her husband and her very small children find comfort in all the people sending her good wishes, prayers and good thoughts.

  15. Sima says:

    I was really upset to read about this. I had read a few days ago that women were not subjected to the groping and ogling and pawing and catcalls and so on in Tahrir that they had been outside. I hoped things were changing. Maybe they are, I really hope they are.

    35 or so years ago, when I was 14, I went to Egypt as part of a study group. I was nearly raped in a rug shop (of all places) by one of the salesmen. The rest of the group were off seeing a salespitch. Me, I got cornered, drug off and my shirt ripped open before I managed to kick the asshat in the balls and run. People were mad at me because they didn’t get to buy their rugs. There was no police report made, as far as I know. I dunno, they wouldn’t let the group leave for 24 hours and we had to stay in the airport for that time, so who knows what was going on.

    Our hotel was undergoing renovation and there were no lights in the elevator. The renovation was happening between the lobby floors and the high up floors where our rooms were. So I went up in the elevator, alone. Doors opened on one of the floors undergoing renovation and dimly I saw two men get on. In the few seconds between those doors closing and them opening on my floor they managed to paw my breasts and shove a hand between my legs.

    The men on the street in Egypt looked at me like I was an alien species, raw meat, or a gazelle ready for the kill, like a murderer looks at a victim. I’d never experienced that before, even earlier in the trip in Turkey. It was terrifying.

    For a long time I simply hated the Arab culture. It took a lot of work for me to drop my knee-jerk reaction and look at nuance. But incidents like this make my leg start twitching and the old knee is ready to fly up…

    • madamab says:

      Sima, what a horrifying story. My Goddess. I am so sorry you went through that.

    • dakinikat says:

      I had a similar experience in Rome as a teenager.

      • Sima says:

        Yea, Rome wasn’t great. Nor Greece, but I didn’t feel like I was, hmm how to put it, wrong. Just wrong. Not just different, but wrong, like a cockroach to be stamped out.

        In Greece some guy asked to buy me. In French. My adult friend, French in real, told him to bug off, and he did. In Rome we got pinched. All the older ladies wanted it. Us young ones were pissed if it happened to us. Go figure. I hated that too. Keep your blooming hands off my body, you creeps!

        Edited to add: Mind you, these incidents all happened 35 years ago. I know things have changed, so I have tried very hard not to become racist about it all. That trip to Europe and the Middle East formed me in many ways, and gave me many, many good things. I don’t regret going one minute.

        • dakinikat says:

          During Mardi Gras, when Bourbon is packed, you’ll have the same experience. I’ve had it happen recently and I’m not exactly a spring chicken any more. I wasn’t expecting to have my ass grabbed at my age or so close to my home. I think those damned girls gone wild videos make it looks like every women wants to be an object of some guys worst impulse. Makes me worry about the daughters a lot.

      • madamab says:

        Good Goddess, dak! Many hugs to you and Sima.

        When I was in college, a guy tried to attack me and a friend in France, in the Metro. I had blocked it out until now. However, we both started yelling and screaming and I grabbed him and slammed him against the candy machine. I don’t know how I did that – I think he must have been thrown off balance by our loud voices. Then we said “Don’t come near us again or we’ll call the police!” and ran away.

      • Sima says:

        Madamab, maybe the common denominator, in some ways, is that we were all young and foreign to the area? I dunno.

        I moved to England in my 20s and did fine. Maybe because it was England. I lived in some rough neighborhoods there and here in the USA and never had a problem. Never had one in Germany either.

      • Minkoff Minx says:

        Dak, do the police do anything about the assaults during Mardi Gras?

        • dakinikat says:

          Not unless it’s major sexual assault or it causes crowds together. The only thing they really tend to shut down is the exposure that draws crowds. We’ve got laws against that and they don’t like to encourage exhibitionism. If they see it draw a crowd, they’ll arrest people.

    • Minkoff Minx says:

      That is horrible Sima, and I can’t even imagine how terrifying the experience was. I was researching women and the muslim brotherhood and found an article by Mona Eltahawy. For some reason the article is not loading but here is a cached version:

      Mona Eltahawy Blog » Archives » Shame and Sexual Harassment in Egypt

      If the link does not work I will post another…if I can find one.

      Then there is this one:

      60 percent of women harassed on daily basis – Cairo | Women News Network

      • Sima says:

        These links are very interesting. I am astounded that 98% of foreign women in Egypt report daily harassment, and 60% of Egyptian women. And it doesn’t matter if you are covered, ‘dressed modestly’ or anything else.

      • Minkoff Minx says:

        Exactly Sima, and the police do nothing about it. Eltahawy mentions in another interview that she had with the top member of the Muslim Brotherhood, he calls her “naked” because she was not in full hijab. (She was wearing regular shirt and slacks.)
        The irony is that the men make their women cover themselves head to toe, and the assaults continue. Not to mention the accepted practice of raping young boys. It is all to damn disturbing.

      • WomanVoter says:

        I hope things change and hugs, as I am fading out early. G’nite. I have faith that if given the chance, Egypt will have a good chance of becoming a democracy. The Christians are reporting that they have not seen any of the hostility they saw before the revolution and that they are hopeful for a peaceful Egypt, where they can all live together.

  16. WomanVoter says:

    The sexual assault of CBS correspondent Lara Logan sheds light on the constant harassment and violence women face across the country despite the revolution. Ursula Lindsey reports.

    The reaction here to the attack on Logan has been consternation. “Lara Logan, I apologize sincerely with all my heart,” reads an online petition being circulated Thursday. “To every girl, woman, mother harassed, I apologize sincerely with all my heart. To my mother nation Egypt, I apologize sincerely with all my heart. And I promise you all that I will try the very best that I can to bring an end to this, in the quest to have our sisters ‘Walk Free.’”

    When I reported on the subject a few years back, some men I interviewed said only girls who dress provocatively get harassed; other denied flatly that harassment takes place at all.

    “We are all Lara,” says Engy Ghozlan, 26, a co-founder of HarassMap, a digital map that monitors incidents of sexual harassment against women here.

    http://tiny.cc/sz64k

    Their is light out there and we must foster it, so that we stay united and fight harassment/misogyny where ever it raises its ugliness and call it out, and stand together…united.